Rocky Marciano vs Evander Holyfield

I'm picking Holyfield by close 15 round decision. It's everything you'd expect. A lot of give and take and good action in every round.

Don't discount Marciano. Yes... Louis, Walcott x2, Charles x2, and Moore were well into their careers when they fought Marciano but I honestly believe that Walcott (at least in their first fight) and Moore were as good as ever when they fought Marciano. Louis was pretty well past prime but still good. Charles was past prime as well but well prepared both times... he really rose to the occasion vs. Marciano. Marciano stopped them all (Charles did go the distance in their first fight). Louis was the most past prime of this group.

 

There is no way Archie was at his best at 39 years old. That is not humanly possible. At 39 a man's testosterone is dropping. That alone is enough to kill that idea.

He was clearly not at his peak when he fought Rocky.

Holy look horrible in that fight. He would've probably lost to several people that night.

 

Let the record speak for itself then. Find a point in Archies record where he was a better fighter and recording more impressive wins. Moore was an exceptional champion and he beat both Rockys #1 and #2 contenders to get his shot.

when was it then? Physical peaks and career peaks can be on oposite ends of an athletic career. Exceptional circumstances make for exceptions to the rule.

including the Charles that Rocky fought.

 

Sorry. But it's pointless to try to reason with people that think a boxer can be in their prime at 39 year olds. It's delusional.

 

Perhaps not a physical prime, certainly a career prime has been proven at that age. You can either find a better point in Moore's career or you cant.

 

It is very unusual, but within the realms of possibility, for a fighter of Moores style.

I honestly think that he was closer to his best than the Charles that Marciano fought.

 

Disagree. Charles gave a better Rocky a tougher fight and many of the defeats on his record at that time were injustices. He really beat Layne and the Harold Johnson fight could have gone either way. He may have won the 4th Walcott fight too.

 

I agree with these points but Moore was still a great threat at heavyweight.

Charles got the shake in a close fight when he was on the way up but not after he had been a champion. It is almost an unwritten rule. Not an uncommon theme. Charles was still a great fighter and he had months to prepare coming off sensational wins.

Moore WAS a great fighter when Rocky fought him. Moore WAS Rockys outstanding contender. If Rocky avoided Moore I personally think it would have been a greater stink than the Dempsey v Wills scenario. If you check Moore's form going into that fight Archie truly was a match for any ATG at that time.

 

Is it even more pointless to reason with the group that try and claim that Louis at 37 was still a top caliber test, that Charles, a blown up light heavyweight at 33 with 100 bouts of wear and tear and Walcott at 38 were also legitimate tests for all time greatness , in addition to Moore ? Welcome to this eccentric group .. :good

 

Evander easily too

He recently said that Foreman was the hardest hitter he went up against. Lmao @ thinking Rocky Overrate Marciano does anything to him

Holyfield got this

 

If Rocky's chin was as good as people say it could have been one of the most brutal fights ever. Holy could NEVER resist a brawl.
Anyone know if he was having similar issues in the 3rd Bowe fight as the Moorer fight? Also I think the Moorer rematch shows he was clearly under the weather in the first fight. There's no way a fighter could be at their best with Teddy's non-stop melodramatic negative reinforcement.

 

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Moore himself said he had no legs when he fought Marciano , but that he had been getting by on guile and guts.
" In This Corner"
Taped interview October 1970
"Marciano got to me by just sheer bulldogging ruggedness and continuously grinding.I hit Rocky Marciano some shots that would have taken the head off the average guy but he just kept piling up on top of me and finally ,you understand,when he got me ina position where he could hit me,then it wasn't long before I had to crumple up because I had no legs.Probably I hadn't had any legs for the past 4 or 5 years ,but I had the braggadocio ,and the skill ,and the guts ."
I'll take Archie's own assessment of his ability when he fought Marciano over anyone else's.:good

 

He had enough legs to beat Nino Valdes 2x and KO Bob Baker both much younger and larger guys and also stop ATG Harold Johnson. IMO all things considered Archie was at his best and on a 50 bout win streak marred by a DQ and a disputed loss that he avenged by KO...he beat some very good heavyweights during this time. Archie could do it all punch,box and defend but even the old mongoose was never the same after the beating he took from Marciano but still managed a 38-4-2 record after with losses to Patterson and then Ali 7-8 years later...not bad

 

It goes 2 ways when people already have there minds made. These men were the top contenders of the day beat Bigger and younger men, much like Hopkins and James Toney did in there day. Look at some of the people they beat.

I have been around for sometime and even in the greatly proclaimed 1970's there were weak opposition, even Ali who had his hands full with competitive fights like Frazier and Norton had his share of very very poor challengers because the era was weak minus a few.....and is that not the same as today....All can be asked of the champion is to fight the best of his day...which many have not done...and then everyone has the right to their respective opinion based on their personal knowledge.....but it does not make them right or wrong......we just recently did a poll on a current fight between Wilder and Stiverne and 95% of the so called experts on ESB (AND THEY ARE WELL EQUIPPED) picked Stiverne by KO.....so much for expert opinions....lets watch the picks of the present before we put so much credit on opinions of how past fighter would have done or their measurements against the respective era's

I dont put so much credence into anyone's opinion including my own, we have all been very wrong

 

Moore may not have been at his physical peak, though he had stomach ulcers that hindered him in his youth, but in his mid-late 30s he was most likely at the peak of his fighting/boxing abilities, or at least that's the impression left by his achievements and resume.

Heading into the Marciano fight, he was on one of the best win streaks of his career and a case can be made was the #1 P4P fighter on the planet with the wins overrival Johnson, LHW Champion Maxim, MW Champion/RING fighter of the year Olson, and leading young HW contenders: Henry, Baker, and Valdez.