Rocky Marciano vs Primo Carnera

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Glass City Cobra, Mar 26, 2021.

How does it go?

  1. Primo KO

    6 vote(s)
    13.3%
  2. Primo TKO

    5 vote(s)
    11.1%
  3. Primo decision

    1 vote(s)
    2.2%
  4. Primo split decision

    1 vote(s)
    2.2%
  5. Draw

    2 vote(s)
    4.4%
  6. Rocky KO

    12 vote(s)
    26.7%
  7. Rocky TKO

    16 vote(s)
    35.6%
  8. Rocky decision

    2 vote(s)
    4.4%
  9. Rocky split decision

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. mark ant

    mark ant Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    No way, Breazale punches far harder than anybody Primo beat and throws too many sots for prime Primo to evade, he`s also taller than almost anybody Primo fought.
     
  2. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You used the word "sloppy". That is inapplicable for a boxer with such a high connect rate and who rarely got nailed by big shots.

    As I said to Reznick it doesn't matter if a boxer isn't technically correct if it works. Nearly every heavyweight champion did things that were unorthodox or a technical no no.

    Of course he rarely fought boxers who were shorter than him he was 6'7. :lol: this is like criticizing Shaq because he never had to guard a center who was heavier than him.
     
    swagdelfadeel likes this.
  3. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Never said he could
     
  4. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Fair enough, English isn't my first language - maybe I don't understand the essence of this word correctly.

    I agree with that, but most people use this argument only for "modern" champions. When oldschool fighter is seen as unorthodox, he's usually called unskilled.

    But Vitali feasted on 6'2 guys who were at massive disadvantage and he relied heavily on his height and reach advantage.

    Shaq played against many centers who were as tall as him or taller, some of them were clearly above 300 lbs. It's not a good comparison in my opinion, because Shaq faced plenty of big guys while Vitali didn't face many big fighters.
     
  5. Jason Thomas

    Jason Thomas Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I was just interested in what Carnera's record against smaller fighters is. And what of his record against bigger men. The weights for all of Carnera's fights are not listed, but quite a few are. 91 to be exact. What do they show.

    Carnera's record against men in the 180's

    Moise Bouquillon--188 (26-5)-----W 10
    Herman Jaspers--184 (0-1)-----KO 3
    Young Stribling--188 (228-11-15)----- W DQ 4
    Young Stribling--184 (228-12-15)------L DQ 7
    Armando Corelis--187 (8-12-1)-----KO 2
    Don McCorkindale--182 (14-5-3)-----W 10
    Art Lasky--189 (18-1)-----W 10
    Tommy Loughran--186 (105-20-9)-----W 15
    Luigi Musina--185 (35-5-4)-----KO by 7

    So Carnera's record against men of less than 190 lbs. is 7-2 with 2 KO's and 1 KO loss. His two KO victories are over men with losing records. (Musina beat Carnera twice more by decision, and a year later against Ole Tandberg weighed 180. So must likely he was in the 180's for Carnera in all three fights. In fairness to Carnera, he was 39 at the time and had laid off 7 years) Overall, this is not at all impressive, with Carnera unable to score KO's against any winning fighter at this weight he fought. You can draw your own conclusion about the likelihood of his knocking out Marciano.

    Carnera's record against men in the 190's

    Leon Sebilo--196 (1-8)-----KO 2
    Joe Thomas--190 (0-1)-----KO 3
    Neil Clisby--199 (39-18-11)-----KO 2
    Jim Maloney--195 (45-10-2)-----L 10
    Moise Bouquillon--194 (34-11)-----KO 2
    King Levinsky--194 (34-14-4)-----W 10
    King Levinsky--197 (43-19-4)-----W 10
    Joe Louis--196 (19-0-0)-----KO by 6
    Leroy Haynes--198 (34-6-1)-----KO by 3
    Albert Meglio--199 (0-2-1)-----L 10

    So Carnera's record against men weighing in the 190's is 7-4 with 4 KO's and 2 KO'd bys. No impresive KO's here. His record against men under a listed 200 lbs totals 14 wins and 6 losses, with 6 KO wins and 3 KO losses.

    But against men over 200 lbs, in 71 fights, Carnera won 65, scored 57 KO's, lost 3 decisions (to Sharkey, Gains, Poreda) and was stopped 3 times, (by Baer, Louis, and Haynes) Most of his impressive wins are against over 200 lb. men. Sharkey, Schaaf, Uzcudun, Neusel. He actually performed much better here than against smaller men, possibly because with a few exceptions, the smaller men were the better fighters, and perhaps some of those over 200 lbs. were carrying more weight then they should have, Sharkey and Uzcudun for example.

    Also, though, Carnera's record is heavily padded with fights against men with poor records, even after he broke into the top ten. Here are some of the records, and I am not interested in laboriously typing the names, so I will give only the numerical records.

    11-8-1
    3-1
    4-2
    46-29-3
    53-39-9
    14-3-2
    28-33-13
    13-18-1
    34-26-1
    19-15-3
    3-8
    15-11-4
    17-13-1
    36-43-12
    8-12-1

    I think looking at these records of opponents when he was a world rated fighter, plus his performances against sub-200 lb. fighters, explains why despite his imposing statistical KO record, his punching power is questioned. And this is not even considering the fixed fights issue. (by the way, I didn't plow through his entire career to get this list. Just too tedious). In fairness to Carnera, he had a great many fights and did defeat a reasonable number of rated fighters.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2021
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  6. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Bergeron Avatar Club Full Member

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    An innovative post for how detailed it is, considering the participants. Good job.

    Deserves a bump. Hence...
     
  7. GOAT Primo Carnera

    GOAT Primo Carnera Member of the PC Fan Club Full Member

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    Anyone knows where good ol´ Seamus is ?
     
  8. Devon

    Devon Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Marciano would batter him
    This isn’t a guy who knows how to use his size at all, he doesn’t extend his punches, and leaves his chin in the air, Carnera would be the one on the backfoot because he would be intimidated from very early on, and he’s not hard to hit, Marciano would get inside, land combinations to the body and head and sooner or later Carnera would be knocked out
     
  9. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Why did you make me do this? You're debating so you can watch everyone around you get banned! Think, cross_trainer! You'll outlast every fragile, insignificant poster on this forum. You'll live to see this website crumble to dust and blow away! Every discussion and every poster you know will be gone! What will have after 500 threads?
     
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  10. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Bergeron Avatar Club Full Member

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    I'll just start another thread about Shavers and invite moneytheman12 whenever I get lonely.
     
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  11. GOAT Primo Carnera

    GOAT Primo Carnera Member of the PC Fan Club Full Member

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    According to @McGrain , most of them remain in free choice whether they come back or not.

    Not sure if this 1 goes hand in hand with the return of @cross_trainer , but it looks like they decided to leave :comp4:
     
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  12. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Bergeron Avatar Club Full Member

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    Can't blame them, when you start letting my kind back into the neighborhood...
     
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  13. mark ant

    mark ant Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Marciano was superior in every way, most former cruiserweight champs would have stopped Carnera and most former light heavy champs would have out-pointed him, Conn would have beaten him.
     
  14. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 "Jack sure can whack” banned Full Member

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    The real question is could Jack Johnson be brought up in a heavyweight division entirely made up of Primo Carnera’s?
     
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  15. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Hagiographer Full Member

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    Rethinking this, I've changed my mind from Rocky by KO, to Rocky by TKO.
     
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