Rocky Marciano vs. Sonny Liston

Fleischer called for Sonny Liston to get his shot over and over again. Nat was certainly not prejudiced toward black fighters. His number one was Jack Johnson! In his editorials He really rated Sonny. Yet he omitted Sonny from his all time rankings. He did not omit Marciano.

 

Pretty nice list.

Whats your reasoning behind Jackson ahead of Jeffries? And Fitz?

No Schmeling over Patterson?

 

It amazes me that you have 2 similar fighters in Frazier and Marciano. Yet Marciano is treated like a fighting God and Frazier constantly gets dumped on. Just unbelievable to me.

 

His carriage.

It's close but I shade toward Patterson who I think is underrated... and I think Max is a tad overrated. Regardless, they are both great fighters.

BTW, if the list is as of 1972, Joe Frazier and Clay/Ali are both on it. Jeffries and Patterson are off.

 

You and me both, brother.

 

No I don't.I am diametrically opposed to just about everything you post, its loaded, biased, and dishonest to a shameless degree and I'm already regretting wasting the couple of seconds on you I just have typing this .

 

So true. Drives me up the wall sometimes

 

I am a big fan of Frazier. Huge.

That man cleaned out his own era. After Ali there was nobody left to beat! He should have retired after beating Ali. Was never the same after that. Frazier went showbiz, blew everything against a novis. but still Frazier continued seeking superfights past his best and paid the price. His legacy reflects that.

If Marciano went the same way after the Moore fight he too would have paid that price. Rocky shrewdly retired at the right moment to prevent us judging his decline.

 

Good. You are not disagreeing with me Then. Those 9 points were facts.



1. Is it untrue that Rocky beat a #1 contender who was not only one inch taller and exactly the same weight as Sonny Liston but 8-0 in the last 12 months?

2. Is it untrue that Sonny get his jaw broken by a guy lighter than Marciano?

3. Is it untrue Sonny practically quit in half of his title fights against a lighter puncher than Marciano?

4. Did any reigning HW champion ever get stopped on a cut?

5. Is it untrue Rocky beat or knocked out all the men he hit?

6. Is it untrue even Westphal landed blows on Sonny?

7. Was Sonny Liston ever rated above Rocky Marciano on any published ATG top ten list BEFORE the internet generation?

8. Were the two men who knocked out Liston greater punchers at world level than Marciano?

9. Was Marciano ever knocked out?

 

Not sure about how prejudiced Nat was against black fighters but he certainly didn't like Liston from what I have read. When he was on his post Lewiston winning streak, Sonny went to see Fleischer and asked why he wasn't rated, apparently citing his record. Fleischer said 'What about your record as a man?' Sonny, ever to the point, said 'What's that got to do with it?'

Sorry I can't quote my source. It may have been one of the Thomas Hauser Ali bios or David Remnick's 'King of the Hill'. But I remember reading that and thinking that anyone who expects exemplary conduct to be among the criteria for ranking boxers might be in the wrong sport. And to be honest, little I have since read about Fleischer, from his involvement in the Ali-Liston 2 farce through to his top 10 list (surely the worst list of all those quoted, and some of the others were strange to say the least) would change my opinion.

 

You should be a prosecutor.

Sometimes it's not about stupid answers but about stupid questions.

 

He's sure got those covered.

 

How is Frazier constantly getting dumped on?

 

Search the classic boards. Hes constantly getting undersold.

 

Don't bother addressing me you have nothing to say that I'm interested in.
McGrain tabbed you right.
You're a waste of a post!