Rocky Marciano vs. Sonny Liston

I'd rate them both in the top 10. Yeah, they'd be close on the list. Maybe I'd have Frazier ahead, since he beat Ali after all.

 

I think its entirely reasonable to have either one place in front of the other. They used to make my top ten but have been supplanted by Holyfield and Tyson.

 

This fight seems to get the most heated debate than of any classic fantasy matchup I've seen. Crazier upsets happen all the time than either one winning. Heck, I just would've loved to see it.

 

I think the early consensus of votes mirrors my take. I find this a toss up fight. If I had to fall off the fence I would pick a late Rocky KO victory. I could also see Liston getting a stoppage or a cuts win...I wouldn't bet on this fight at all. I like both guys but wouldn't call either one, one of my favorites. So hopefully I am unbiased.

 

what's that got to with the price of a trilby?

213lb is 213lb. A legitimate #1 contender is a legitimate #1contender. Louis earned that ranking at the weight he was by then.

In fact, Louis was lighter for Marciano than he had been for other fights. Joe Louis was 207lb for Abe Simon before he even went into the army! That makes his weight differential a lot less between his prime and #1 contender days. Louis was 211lb for mauriello in 1946 and 218 for Charles 1950 so the 213 Louis was in 1951 against Rocky was Not only lighter than what he was for Charles but what, a sunday dinner heavier than he was 9 years earlier! 6lb in 9 years?

they were all lighter punchers than Marciano. Do you think either of them hit as hard as Marciano? One beat Sonny at the start of his career, one beat him in the middle and one at the end. He also quit in a title fight! So Sonnys whole career is well and truly covered with room for doubt all along versus harder punchers than those three. Rocky should qualify here.

 

You know I agree with you that Liston would probably KO Rocky just because of styles, but something is sort of nagging me after reading all the comments. If Sonny doesn't get the rock outta there early , and it drags on into the 9th ,10,11th and becomes a battle of heart and will all bets could be off. I don't know if Rocky could survive that long though

 

Totally agree, there seems to be a line of thought that Joe would just totally lose every fight against fighters of the last 20 years.

 

Just for your information, as it's blatantly obvious you dksab, Leotis Martin came in at number 68 on The Ring Magazines 100 Greatest Punchers of All Time.

Ali is widely considered the greatest heavyweight who ever lived and stopped numerous durable foes.

We've been over the Marshall loss numerous times.

So much deception.

 

If Marciano came in at 182 pounds to Louis' 213 pounds that you claim he weighed when they fought, then that would be a 31-pound advantage for Louis. I had always been under the impression that Louis weighed 195 pounds when he fought Marciano.

 

And where did Rocky feature on this all important list? Why is it ok for Ring Magazine to say Rocky hit harder than Leotis Martin but not me? Are they saying anything different? Was Rocky below Leotis Martin on any list? sure Leotis had some "pop" in his punch but not like what Rocky had. Not by a long chalk. Maybe you should take this up with Don Turner?

yes Ali stopped numerous foes, there is no shame in being stopped by a great fighter. After all Ali stopped a greater fighter like Joe Frazier. but Sonny quit on him before Ali got around to stopping him. Sonny opted out of that fight without taking crushing blows. He was still staggered a few times by Ali all the same and this is relevant that Marciano hit harder. I don't see any deception in suggesting a guy staggered by Ali would be more than staggered by Marciano.

and in all that time it still remains a loss for Sonny against a lighter man than Rocky.

you keep saying "so much deception" when you really mean to say "so much I wish wasn't true".

 

Joe Louis was a bigger man than people remember. He was often just over 200lb in his prime. He was 207lb against Abe Simon in his prime. And he was a taller man than Sonny Liston.

The 213lb Louis weighed for Rocky is exactly what Sonny weighed against Pattterson. And that was not the heaviest Joe Louis had weighed. He was always in shape fighting 8 times a year.

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Rocky_Marciano_vs._Joe_Louis

 

The sad thing is he repeats this cr*p after suitable intervals!


Tale Of The Tape
Joe Louis Sonny Liston
6'.1 .5" Height 6'.1"
17" Neck 17.5"
76" Reach 84"
42" Chest 44"
45" Exp 46.5"
12.25" Forearm 14"
15.5" Bicep 17"
8" Wrist 8.5"
11.25" Fist 14"
22.5 " Thigh 25.5"
14.25" Calf 14.5"
10" Ankle 11"


Average weight for Louis in title fights 196lbs.
Average weight for Liston in title fights 215lbs.
Maybe we can put to rest the stupid premise that they were the same size now?

 

Joe Louis was 218lb for one title fight and he won the title weighing 197lb so I don't know how Joe Louis's average weight in title fights can be under his lowest title fight weight? Maybe you are calculating this average starting with joe Louis's birth weight?

At the end of the day Joe Louis was 218-213 on his 8-1 comeback and was visibly taller than Sonny Liston in real life.

I don't think the 0.5" extra Neck measurement really proves Sonny was a bigger man than Joe Louis was in 1951 especially if joes measurements were recorded when he was under 200lb years earlier?

It's all rather petty. What is evident is that on film Louis was not fat or inactive in 1951. He was a genuine contender at that time. And helpfully for this debate ....as big as Liston.

 

Louis best prime weight as per Louis himself was 202 lbs. But weight has nothing to do with the outcome of the fight.

 

Louis was an old shot fighter by the time he fought Marciano. As per Louis he could no longer pull the trigger on his best weapon....his straight right hand.