Rocky marciano vs the future champions

Why would Ali flurrying make Wlad panic or even apprehensive? Maybe he simply starts catching Ali when the much smaller man tries to come within range. Ali isn't a puncher like Sanders and I'm skeptical that going after Wlad aggressively is a winning strategy. Fury was facing an older Wladimir and is a much bigger man than Ali with a big reach advantage. Perhaps Wladimir would have an easier time landing on the much smaller Ali.

 

Ali's footwork is the best there ever was at heavyweight. Footwork and timing create the majority of range not reach. Ali feasted on Ernie Terrell and his 82" reach. Ali dominated Liston and his 84" reach twice. A dilapidated Ali with the wheels falling off had no trouble with Joe Bugner's 82" reach.

 

The other thing I find ironic is that people frequently mention Ali's size advantage when he is being compared with guys from earlier eras like Tunney or Marciano. It's been brought up numerous times supposedly in his favor but when he's the smaller man it suddenly doesn't matter.

Ditto with Foreman, when he's the bigger man it's a big advantage but when he's the little guy in the ring suddenly a total non issue.

 

Wladimir Klitschko is faster, more athletic, and vastly more dangerous than Bugner or Terrell. He looks remarkably quick on film.

 

And sorry I don't think Liston had an 84 inch reach. Photographic evidence indicates otherwise as well as the fact he was only 6'1.

 

Because of wlads fragile mind.

He showed heart in his last fight and he deserves credit for that but for his entire career he was terrified anytime somebody threw anything in his general vicinity. And unlike a Povetkin Ali can just step back when a panicked Wlad tries to grab and hug him after getting tagged by a combination

I agree with your point about foreman and the fact that it's not counted against him when he's the smaller guy.
But that doesn't apply to Ali, him being bigger than Marciano or Tunney is a big deal because he is also faster so they literally have nothing to beat him with.
When a guy is both alot heavier and faster at the same time there just really isn't anything you can do.

If Ali was up against a SHW atleast he would still have the speed advantage but nobody bigger than him has the speed advantage over him
While Marciano gives up speed to several bigger guys despite being much lighter

 

Eh, we have a massive thread about this.
Maybe his reach was "only" ~ 80". But it is far from conclusive from the photos.
His arms are very long, + the other things necessary for a huge reach-hands & breadth of chest.
Also the very longest "ape factors"-wingspan exceeding height-are also + 11", listed for a bunch of guys.
Except for one dude who is listed as + 12 or 13" depending on his exact height-likely the latter, since height is often overstated, certainly in B-Ball. [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BeeJay_Anya[/url]

So it is possible.

 

The problem remains that these people being used as examples of Alis abilities to supposedly deal with bigger men are not very compelling. Ernie Terrell for example does not appear to be anywhere near the level of a Klitschko or Joshua or Lewis based on film or record. He doesn't have the power or the athleticism

 

Wladimir also seemed to excel against smaller boxer types like Byrd and Chambers

 

I think boxers started to use steroids in 90s, when they also started to lift weights.
Steroids were always connected with weight lifting, so I don't believe they were used in a sport (boxing) that was strictly against that kind of training.

Norton may have started chopping woods and doing more calisthenics and gain muscle mass, he was that gifted.

 

So you're basically accusing every relevant boxing trainer of being completely ignorant of a number of substances that were legal for 30 years after being invented, not tested for until the 90s and can make their fighters bigger, stronger and faster ?

Wow you have a really low opinion of the people involved in boxing from the late 50s to the late 80s.

If I was a trainer for a top pro I would try to find any advantage I possibly could, especially if it's legal.
and if I found out that there was something that puts 20lbs of muscle on my HW without slowing him down while increasing his recovery ability and is completely legal I would slap myself for not pumping him full of it earlier.


You forget that they weren't vilified back then as they were as soon as the cold War ended and we didn't have to worry about beating the Soviets at everything anymore.

If the "evil russians" were the only guys juicing up all their athletes then no other country would have won a medal in anything for the entire cold War.

 

Talking about boxing.
Dbol was invented for weightlifters.

Boxing coaches didn't know shyte about strength training, how would they know about steroids?
Didn't Dundee said he would beat his fighters with a baseball bat if he cought them lifting weights?
That's how ignorant and clueless they were.
And if they tought lifting weights are bad, will slow you down, they only produce "show" muscles, what do you think they thought of steroids?

Steroids were popular among strength athletes - obviously weightlifters, shot putters, sprinters etc... Athletes who lifted heavy weights.

So you think Norton's coach send him to chop wood and later gave him Dbol?

 

No but their doctor would.
It wasn't the weightlifting coach that had the 1960 Olympic team loaded up on dbol. It was their doctor. Look it up.
That's how it was done back then.


Since you brought up Dundee, it was him who said that Ali's Doctor had him taking a wide assortment of pills everyday, some of them banned in sports today.
So if he gets thyroid hormone(banned and used by bodybuilders) without a deficient thyroid...why wouldn't he get testosterone?

I can buy Kenny being natural at 205 like a slightly bigger jersey joe walcott.

But not at 225 without gaining an ounce of fat, not without weights. He wasn't some malnourished 160lbs beanpole. he was already 205lbs and very muscular. And the 225 wasnt flabby it was a rock hard extra 20lbs just like with Holyfield(who actually did lift)

It really doesn't matter how. The point is that natural or not the guys from the 70s on are just too strong for rocky

 

First time commenting...can’t believe what I’m reading. There are many here that think they know the rock but from reading the comments don’t know anything. First of all he wasn’t easy to hit. He rarely was hit with a combo. Was probably the finest conditioned HW ever and had one of the greatest chins. His punching power is also being extremely downgraded by many. The biggest man he fought 6”4 Vingo he sent into a coma. Archie Moore (only fighter to go against Ali and Marciano) stated he was the strongest man he ever fought. That being said if it’s 15 round fights he stands a better chance against the likes Holmes Wlad and Vitali. He was a late starter. Patterson W by KO. Johannson w by KO. Liston quits on his stool. Ali L by points. Frazier KO late rounds. Foreman L by tko. Old Ali W by decision. Norton/Spinks Wins. Holmes honest Toss up. Tyson he puts down late Holyfield draw Bowe L by decision. Lewis W by KO. Klitschkos W by tko. (If Byrd could mess up vitalis arm can’t imagine he would fight again after facing the rock)

 

I can’t imagine what a roided up Marciano would do to these over weight bums today.