Mythical best describes what goes on most of the time regarding this part of the forum. A myth guy vs a myth guy. The nutrition, or especially, the roid things are a non starter with me. Neither goo or you know how big a person like Marciano would have built up to through nutrition. Thinking roids are unimportant is an opinion goo has that I don't share in the slightest. I'm very happy with seeing Marciano compared to whatever just through what he was. If you need to explain a win through better nutrition, or roids, this only adds to what Marciano has already proven himself to be.... without any help from either!
Stop reading my posts in the lounge section Size, regarding boxing, isn't necessarily a determining factor.
Quite agree ,I was referring to Suzie equating Marciano with Weaver as being "roughly" the same size ,5 10 1/2 heaviest weight 189 6 1 heaviest weight 221 1/2 That is roughly!
Frazier's right was good enough to set up knockdowns. Rocky's power was so immense that he had to kick Cockell to the canvas. Anyway, Frazier had a bette defence and was just as strong down the stretch. His so-called weak right hand was more accurate than Marciano's 'devestating' left hook.
Funny, I read an article many years ago titled "Tyson awed by Marciano's power." He was very complimentary towards Marciano, and not just his power. In return, Peter Marciano stated that "Rocky would have absolutely loved Tyson." Reading the comments on this thread have me thinking Rocky is both overrated and underrated at the same time. He's a GREAT fighter in my book, but for his time. Having him tackle 6'5 240 lb. giants is asking too much for a man his size, however effective he was with what he had.
I've seen him speak on Marciano's defence being underrated but he was also saying that Rocky's chin was not what many made it out to be. He also did not believe Rocky could take the amount of punishment from bigger men than Walcott and Charles. He is a great fighter but the question you raise is the doubt that many people have over him. Then again Evander was a Cruiser who crushed many big men.
There's no good reason to doubt Marciano's chin. Sure, you can say it's not "proven" against 230 pound hard-punching heavyweights but not many are - I mean, Tyson took some monster shots from big men but was also KO'd and rocked by them (Holy was only 215). NO MAN has proven he can take infinite amount of shots from such powerful men. And generally, the biggest men dont connect with the snappiest punches all the time, which is why these big powerhouses can survive each other for 12 dull rounds so often. What Marciano DID prove is that he had remarkable good chin against 190-210 pound punchers. The punch Archie Moore caught him with was on the point of the chin, and Moore was capable of KOing plenty of big heavyweights. Moore looked amazed to see Marciano get up like that. The way that punch landed I think it would have knocked down MOST heavyweight champions, and knocked out many. Walcott was a ripped 197 pound powerhouse, with immense strength in his upper body. Does he compare with the giant 240 pound steroid-boys like Lewis and Wlad ? No, I daresay they are stronger and more powerful, but Walcott was a damned consistent puncher and when he connected with any accurate shot it would register on any man. Again, Marciano took his best and kept coming. Joe Louis was still a dangerous puncher when Rocky faced him. And at 212 pounds he's a decent-sized fighter (same as Holyfield, about 8 pounds less than Tyson). Marciano walked through some big shots. I think Marciano was so well conditioned and his centre of gravity so low that he'd be able to absorb some big shots from the big men, shots he'd likely see coming because his low stance and shortness would exaggerate the travel distance of any incoming punch. And if he can crowd INSIDE of the punches he's gonna do some damage. I think people dwell too much on punching POWER, where Marciano's real problems against giants would be the sheer bulk, and their strength. A boot-tough, well, conditioned fighting man can be incredibly resilient to blows and punishments. I've seen some crazy **** to prove how tough some people are, seen a man have his legs run over by a car loading with six people and get up and walk away. I've seen a man fall from roof top and live to tell the tale. I myself have run blind into a lamp-post, and been clipped in the head by a speeding transit van and stay upright (maybe I'm brain-damaged ! But I didn't go down ). And Marciano was the toughest of the tough. So it's silly to assume he'd be blown-out by mere punches just because the opponent is powerful. The problem he'd have is that he only weighs 185 pounds, meaning that he can be manhandled. I mean, even if he's as strong as his 240 pound opponent he's got 240 pounds to push around, whereas his opponent only has 185 pounds to push around. Therefore Rocky is likley to be manhandled a fair bit, smothered, leaned on, pushed. But having said that, his great stamina and determination might make a difference.
i pretty much agree with this except to say that trying to smother marciano might not be a good idea. His short arms might just enable him to rip into those lumbering big men when up close. 1 thing is for sure, few of the giants (even the great ones like Lewis) could have lived at the pace he could set. lewis would have been gasping for air if Rocky got him past the first 5-6
I actually compared to michael weavers size when he fought holmes, to jersey joe walcott as comparable. Marcianos heaviest weight was 193lb vs keene simmons..........not 189
Ya why don't we pull out a fighters worst night and pick on him. Marciano was slipping badly by the cockell fight. How bout I comment on Ezzard Charles being unable to floor D level tomato can freddie Beshore for 14 rounds in a title defense.......or larry holmes being unable to do anything but look bad against ATG lucien rodriguez LOL. or how bout joe frazier hitting terry daniels with everything but the kitchen sink and unable to floor him......
You're willing to give ample merit to the testimony of one of his own relatives in terms of what he'd do in a modern era? This is somewhat of a biased perspective. I also think that its highly speculative to assume that he'd just easily throw on 20-30 Lbs, and go out there being as effective or more so. Marciano was probably at his ideal fight weight at 185Lbs. He might do well around 195, but thats about it. If he were fighting today, he'd be well fit for the cruiserweight division, but a midget at the heavyweight ranks.
Rockys brother personally told me rocky marciano naturally weighed around 225lb, and that he really struggled dearly to make it under 190lb toward the end of his title reign. He had to run 15-18 miles a day plus boxing training just to get himself down there. Rockys brother knows him more than we do, and marcianos big bonestructure certainly allows him to carry the extra weight. think of him as a mike tyson in build, or david tua. so david tuas a midget? hes shorter than marciano but similiar build except much fatter. marcianos all rock solid muscle. Marciano weighed in over 190lb 3-4 times during his career. with modern nutrition/supplements/technology/protein ****, etc marciano would easily be able to weigh in at 205-210lb without any physical suffering. especially since his natural weight is 225lb.
Just because he carried extra weight while deconditioned does not necessarily suggest that he'd be a 230 Lb muscle man 50 years later. I can easily weigh 180Lbs, when I'm out of shape, but when I'm at my ideal weight, I'm around 165. Additionally, not all fighters or athletes in general react to adding on muscle mass in the same manner. Just because Spinks, Holyfield and Moorer did it, does not mean that everyone can. I also venture to say that Marciano's family would certainly like to think that their beloved relative could easily ad weight and then go out there beat Holmes, Ali, Lewis, and Holyfield, but I'd rather get the opinion of someone who is a tad more impartial.