Ron Lyle vs Cleveland Williams

Machen said he was very good.
Terrell thought he was very good.
Liston thought he was the best fighter he'd fought.


If this was the peer testimonies about some 1920s middleweight, klompton, you'd figure he was pretty good, I think.

 

The record of williams is shi t next to lyle's . bonavena, mathis,bugner, Peralta,Ellis, being competitive with ali and being close to stop foreman is much better than getting stopped by Guys like satterfield ( a guy with tons of defeats lol)

 

Satterfield was "a tweener" ....big Lighthvy/very small heavyweight who fought them all from the mid-40's to the late 50's. Satterfield had very good power...and would have gotten a shot at Rocky M. if he had beaten Ezzard Charles in a Title Elimination fight in 1954. Satterfield came to fight, gave the fans a great show, but 5-6 rds was his max. due to his style. He probably K.O.'ed Cleveland at that stage who had never fought a "name" opponent, when in fact Satterfield had loads of experience. A Boxing Illustrated 2005 List of P4P power punchers:
1. Jimmy Wilde
2. Max Baer
3. Bob Fitzsimmons
4. George Chaney
5. Charles Ledoux
6. Bob Satterfield
7. Earnie Shavers
8. Joe Louis
9. Jack Dempsey
10. Sandy Saddler

 

Well... since we are pretending Foreman fought Cleveland Williams, I must tell you that Williams never even landed a punch on Foreman and Foreman knocked Williams out with the first punch he landed. The whole fight lasted about 30 seconds.

I think Lyle would overcome some scary moments early on and eventually stop Williams... round 5 or 6.

Lyle stopped Rondon, Mathis, and Middleton before getting outpointed by the more experienced Quarry. He out pointed Peralta, stopped Garcia, Blin, outpointed Bonavena, Ellis, stopped Kirkman, was out pointed by Young x2, was stopped by Ali (LKOby11, but gave him problems), stopped Shavers, was stopped by Foreman (LKOby5, dropped Foreman twice), he outpointed Bugner and LeDoux. He has the much better resume.

 

I love how its a great excuse for Williams to be 35 plus when he lost most of his fights. But Lyle lost more than half of his fights 35 or older and 3 of his 7 knockouts. Fact is that in less time with less experience Lyle beat better fighters and lost less against consistently higher lvl of opposition. What was Williams best win? A Green Terrell? When thats as deep as your resume gets its not very deep.

 

Here's the old Klompton double standards at work AGAIN... ok for Ali not to take a backward step and not take a fight that doesn't suit him but not ok if Ali was an Aussie

 

Yeah it's funny how the dude uses double standards and always uses circular arguments... twists facts to suit his agenda's... good post man:yep:good:good

Problem with Klompton is he can't tell jack from watching film, no idea what he is looking at, anyone with eyes can see what good qualities Williams had, good speed, power and enough good skills so that if he used his brains would outpoint pure slugger Lyle..... Klompton also loves to point out losses of those he despises yet has every excuse known to man if his guys lose....

 

Forman sparred with williams. So yes he tested his power .(yes yes i know i know, sparring is not real fight blablabla)

 

Sparring really doesn't mean shlt. Plus, Foreman was just a teenager and only had a few amateur fights when he sparred with Liston and Williams. Foreman is just being nice when he says good things about Liston, Williams, and others.

 

Yeah. I agree that forman was green, but he tested the "Power" of williams.
Funny that forman never rated the power of liston in his top 3.

 

Williams is, and always will be a bit of an enigma.

If you accept he was naive against Sattersfield in 52 and was washed up against Ali in 64 you can conclude only one man truly beat him and that was Liston.

Tbh that isn't outrageous by any means and it is how I see it.

The problem isn't his losses, the problem is his victories, there a small handful of fights that you can mention in terms of Williams being an elite force. Was that him being ducked or was that him being protected?

In my mind Williams would be a top contender in any era but that's about as far as I'm willing to stretch.

For this matchup, it's a shootout. There probably isn't a superior fighter out of the two of them and a long term series would see them taking a share if the spoils .

Who has the highest quality victory as a decider for me?

Williams bear Ernie Terrell. Lyle beat Shavers. Not a lot in it and both became the next next HW in the world at some point, in fact probably higher rated then the two men were debating.

In a shootout between two men of similar quality I'm just gonna ***** out and go with the bigger man.

Lyle ko.

 

williams hit harder than liston. Lots of people don't know this.

 

Doesnt it get old standing in my shadow.

 

Both were monster hitters .. neither had an iron chin .. I might lean to Williams as he was faster and might land earlier ..