ROY jones JR what happend

And what kind of opponents was he facing in those yrs he was ranked p4p? The last top fighter he faced was Toney in 1994 after that he faced alot of mediocre fighters. Even though it was not his fault because the divisions he was in lacked any real talent, but none the less he faced mediocre fighters. Even when he moved up to heavyweight he chose to fight the weakest champion out there. He was not old when he lost to Tarver or Johnson. He got ko'd and his confidence got shattered and thats why he started losing not because of his age. Its so obvious, just look at RJ in the Johnson fight that was not age, he was genuinly afraid.

Are you saying he lost only because he got old, now thats stupid. he still had his speed and reflexes when he fought Tarver all 3 times, when he fought Johnson, even Trinidad.

I would like to hear your idea of what is considered a p4p fighter? What should a p4p fighter entail?

 

This is not the same set of circumstances. In your view Tyson lost to Douglas because he was old? This is the impression you give when you compare the RJ situation to Tyson's situation. When it came to Tyson, after he lost to Douglas he fought RR and then went to prison not long after. We don't know if he could of came back from that Douglas loss because he went to prison.

RJ on the other hand, we can see how he reacts after his 1st loss. He got in the ring not long after losing to Tarver and what happened? He fought scared against Johnson and then got ko'd. The problem is alot of people when their fav fighter starts losing they automatically blame it on age. First he is great, winning and when he loses, oh its because he is too old. I don't think boxing is that simple.

 

Dude you know nothing about Roy Jones. Just because you don't recognize some of the names on his resume, doesn't mean he was not fighting anyone. If you think Toney was the last top fighter he fought, you are misinformed, this makes me believe you started watching boxing recently.
Toney may have been the last ATG he faced, but last I checked there are many excellent fighters that are not ATG.

I would like to hear your idea of what is considered a "mediocre" fighter.

In my opinion it does not include former world champs, top contenders, and future world champs, which is who Roy was feasting on in a much more dominating fashion than many other P4P fighters during his era, while showcasing an amazing ability never seen before which is why he was #1.

If you can not see the difference in Roy Jones after he dropped from Heavyweight then you are blind, or not that familiar with him.

He was 35 for Christ sakes when he got knocked out, after dropping down from heavyweight. That can screw your body up forever at that age, and with someone like Roy who's entire defense was pure reflex, it would take only a slight loss of reflex before you are caught wide open, and that is what happened.

He fought Johnson too soon after Tarver, he was way out of shape, sucking wind after a couple rounds, sluggish legs, he was not the same. It is easy to see. He feasted on fighters like Johnson in his prime.

Don't even talk about Trinidad, he was a blown up WW, who had not fought in a few years, and still managed to win the first 3 rounds against Roy.

 

Dude, he was 35, with eroded reflexes and no legs, what the **** do you want from him?

A lot of champions get beat in their prime, then they come back strong, by the time Roy was knocked out he was done. He had been slowing for years, he just wasn't losing.

And for your information Tarver was not Roy's first loss, see Jones Griffin 2 to see how a prime Jones reacted to a loss.

 

First, and I am talking about a legit loss not resulting from a dq. A loss where there is no room for speculation or doubt. he was beating Griffin when he hit him while he was down, no way RJ accpted that as a loss. So its your reason that RJ defeated Ruiz he was not too old, when he came back down and defeated Tarver in the 1st fight he was not oo old, but then when he got Ko'd by Tarver in their rematch he was too old. How convenient. C'mon, if you are saying he lost to Tarver because of age then you must not of seen the fight, because age had nothing to do with it. He got hit w/ a great left hook and he went down. Its not because he did not have his legs or his reflexes. He won the 1st round easily and his legs and reflexes were just as good as when he fought Ruiz or Tarver 1.

In the Johnson fight, it was not because he did not have his legs or speed. He went completely defensive because he did not want to get ko'd again. Blaming it all on age is just a convenient excuse.

 

Read my post please, you can clearly see that is says see Jones Griffin 2 to see Jones' reaction to a loss.

And yes, he was too old in the Tarver Jones 1, weight drained, took a pretty good pounding which I think made his chin and reflexes even worse...

He used pure heart in the last 2 Rounds to pull out the victory. This was Roy's last great fight, which is actually underrated because he looked human for the first time, but very signifying in an ATG sense, because not too many fighters in history dropped from heavyweight and regained the LHW title in the very next fight, and the ones that did are all HOF i am pretty sure.

Tarver Jones 2, Roy only looked good in the first round because Tarver was just standing in the center of the ring like a sitting duck, much of what he did in the first fight for some of the rounds. In the second before the KO he had already started to push Roy around the ring again.

I guess you can have you opinion, but I grew up watching Roy fight, my family is all huge Roy fans, and I could see a difference in his demeanor ever since the drop from heavyweight, not after he lost either, but before. He has since looked frail and sluggish compared to what he used to be. No one can make me believe otherwise.

And yes, I did see Jones Tarver 2.

 

Answer my question w/ a question. By the way I have seen all of RJ's fights, everyone and I know all of the names of all the fighters he fought. He was criticized back them just like MAyw is crtiscized now, for not taking risks. You should not make too many assumptions based on ,well actually nothing. I have been watching/involved boxing for 30 yrs. Clinton Woods yeah a great fighter, Vinny PAz, wow! Julio Gonzalez, Richard Hall. These are just a few of the "great" fighters Roy beat.

Regarding your definition. Well what if its a really weak division? You may have a title holder who is just plain mediocre, due to the lack of talent in the division he is the champ. In this example would he be a great fighter? I doubt it, this is the exact same situation RJ was in, weak division and due to the lack of depth you had title holders, contenders, who were just plain not very good. In this day of age of with all the alphabet soup titles you could throw a rock and hit a former world champ.


RJ's did not get ko'd after dropping down from heavy, he beat Tarver in the 1st fight when he went back down to lightheavyweight. So don't make that excuse. Also you are not defining what a mediocre fighter is you are defining what a medicore fighter is not. Plus you make excuse after excuse for Jones, he lost becaue he was too old, wait he lost because he was out of shape, no wait he lost because he lost too much weight, he lost because he fought too soon. You know what my defiition of a great fighter is, a fighters great when you don't have to constantly make excuses for why he lost or why his career fell apart.

Would we be sitting here talking about how great Ali was if he had lost to Frazier and then his career went into a nose dive? No we would not, we call him great because he came back and beat Frazier (twice). Would we be here talking about how great Joe Louis was if he had lost to Schmeling and then went on to lose most of his his future fights? He is one of the greatest because he came back from adversity to ko Schmelling. Who is a more impressive fighter one who can avenge his loss or losses or one who can't (no matter what excuse one can make for them losing).

You mention Trinidad, you are actually making my point for me. A blown-up welterweight, winning the 1st 3 rds against a much bigger, faster Jones. A great fighter would of ko'd Trinidad, and Jones could not do it, even though Trinidad was just begging to get ko'd.

One more thing, when he moved up to heavyweight why did he chose the weakest title holder??? Why did he not challenge Lewis or even Chris Byrd? Why did he not stay at heavyweight if like you say he had trouble with weight at lightheavy? Every fighter who has moved up to heavy do it to become the undisputed heavyweight champ, not to challenges the weakest title holder then run back down to a lower weight class. Toney moved up because he wanted to become the undisputed champ, Michael Moorer same thing, now you have Adamek who says he has moved up to become the undisputed champ. Unlike Jones he moves up w/preconditions, only for one fight, only against the weekest title holder,opponent. That speaks volumes on waht kind of fighter RJ is.

 

I thought I edited it to reflect what u said., don't know what happened

 

You have not payed attention to anything I said, so I am not gonna give you the time of day anymore, and I don't have time to argue with you over it.:-(

 

Yet another excuse added. Now he was bored w/boxing and preffered rap music and doing movies. Lots and lots of excuses.

I am not disputing his talent or his skills. I am disputing whether he was as great of a fighter as everyone claims. He was faster than anyone, blazing speed. But p4p rankings hsould not be based alone on a person's special gifts or skills. And that is why RJ was always named p4p because no one had ever seen such physically gifted quickness.

P4P should be based 1st on who one has fought and beaten. Too many analysts base it on just skills or speed alone. I recall that moron Max Kellerman doing this regarding Judah. He wa ready to name him the 2nd coming because of his natural talents. He was already calling him the next great fighter. And yes he did have great speed and power, but when he fought good fighters he got beat. So p4p ranking shoudl be based on the quality of the opposition 1st.

 

I saw a slow steady decline In Roy BEFORE he went to heavyweight, not really with his reflexes or hand speed, but his legs. He was not near as mobile and fast in the legs.

Ruiz had a huge reach, height and weight advantage over Roy. That was still a great win, coming from a man that started at JMW. Anyone trying to discredit that, I don't even want to talk to. If he had picked Byrd people like you would be saying he did that because he knew Byrd was defensive minded and knew he would fight Roy's style of fight, and he was afraid of getting smothered and beat up by Ruiz. Lewis was not even logical, or realistic, the size was just too great over Roy.

Anyone who has followed Roy, knew that he was planning to stay at HW, but was pissed off by Tarver and lured into dropping back down to fight him. This is common knowledge, Tarver was at the Post fight conference, and called Roy out.

You brought up Trinidad not me, and I did not make a point for you. Trinidad won the first 3 rounds because Roy was SHOT to ****, not because Roy was not a great fighter, Anyone with a brain knows prime for prime Roy would have brutally knocked Trinidad out.

You bring up Woods and Gonzalez, thanks! These are examples of fighters that hold wins over G.Johnson, that Roy destroyed when he was not shot, the same way he would have done Johnson. Gonzalez also went on to become lineal champ for a short stint.

I never said Roy was beating great fighters at LHW, i said he was beating better than mediocre save a few cans, and I will still stand by that statement, Hill, Griffin, Del Valle,R. Johnson, Woods, Harding, Gonzalez, are all better than mediocre.

It is clear that you judge Roy too harshly, anyone can be done like that and there is nothing I can say to change your opinion.