Rumble In The Jungle 2, who wins?

Boxing is 90% mental and Ali 100% won the mental battle between the two. I think he owned George between the ears and would have won fairly handily in a rematch.

Foreman was a mess, as we saw in the Young fight. The way Ali got under his skin during the Toronto Five exhibitions showed nothing there had changed between them nor was going to change.

Now if George kept fighting he would have eventually beaten an older Ali who was on his last legs had they somehow fought say post-Manilla but up to that point I think Ali would have enough left physically and the mental game would do the rest.

 

George made the mistake of wanting to murder Ali in the first fight, not box him.
"If he comes to me, I'm gonna break his neck. If he chooses to run from me, I'm gonna catch him and break his neck."

 

If the rematch took place after the Thrilla in Manila then Foreman would dominate and knock out Ali. If the rematch was within five or six months of the first fight, Foreman would still have a good chance to win as Ali was aging by the day. I'm not sure young Foreman could have fought a different style but I do think that even if he fought the same style he would have been smarter and less hellbent for leather ..... to use a very old fashioned term.

Overall, I have Foreman winning.

 

I'm well aware of it, it's just that I couldn't Foreman outboxing him either. The second fight imo depends pretty between Foreman's competence vs Ali's declining age

 

Ali would come ready for a more-prepared Foreman -- Muhammad was no dummy. Ali uses his slickness and vastly superior boxing skills to win a decision over Big George. George looks significantly better in this defeat than he does in Zaire, where he looked like the biggest goof imaginable.

 

A lot is made, & rightly, of Foreman’s mental state. What of Ali’s? He never looked convinced to me that he thought he could duplicate the result back in America. I think quietly he had his doubts.

 

Ney I would have to absolutely disagree that fight is like “The War” in that all the chatter about it turned it into a Hollywood battle but when the fog cleared both were not that competitive at all - Foreman vs Ali more so.
Muhammad could do the exact same thing again because George only knew how to fight one way.
if GF approached it any other way he’d be fighting like a novice he was a fast tracked guy who was exceptional with his gifts but it hurt him as it hurts all the guys like that.
He was managed well for money but he would’ve never been a long standing champion - with how things went afterwards the writing was on the walls.

 

Ali.

 

Well yes, we’ll have to disagree. But for Ali’s upset victory, I don’t see anyone halting Foreman’s reign until - maybe - Holmes, which would be no earlier than 1978. Do you see someone doing it sooner?

If Foreman had handled the defeat like any other, I think we’d get a much clearer picture on Ali’s chances in the return fight. He was in no hurry to get back in the ring with Foreman, but this has been washed away by Foreman’s inability to cope with the loss.

 

I think it was more of a case similar Fury trying to avoid Wilder in a trilogy bout if he could. The winners weren't necessarily afraid they'd lose in a rematch, but rather didn't fancy the damage they'd have to take en route to victory.

Make no mistake Foreman hurt Ali badly, had him out on his feet at one point by Ali's own admission, had him pissing blood for a month, and hit him with punches that would've (and in fact did) knock out lesser men out cold.

 

It would have been a stinker if it had happened. Foreman would’ve been unwilling to commit & Ali would have been goading him to approach him on the ropes. I’ve no idea how it would play out in terms of a winner, but it would’ve been ugly.

 

Well it’s something of a law of averages and Foreman’s style being pretty sloppy.
Bonavena, Shavers, Lyle, Young, Bugner could all do it for different reasons but not IMO prime for prime (Aside from Jimmy Young) but in a real world setting where a guy gets out of shape, aging, stylistic trouble, the opponent has a good game plan, he gasses or is disinterested etc etc etc.
There is a mixed bag of guys in the 70s who could steal a win. In the 80s which looks stronger than the 2nd half of the 70s he’d rule over (which was pretty weak) he picks up losses for a certainty.
As you say though Holmes would get him, get him badly and he’d be the number 2 guy but with losses to suggest otherwise. Retiring was perfect for preserving his health and good record.

 

I didn’t say Holmes would get him. I said he might. I mentioned earlier in another thread I favour Foreman 51-49 against peak Holmes.

 

Pre Manila Ali beats Foreman in a rematch--he's simply too smart and adaptable for George. Foreman may come in better prepared--especially with "rope a dope" tactics but Ali simply had more tools in the toolbelt and a much better ring IQ. Ali finds a way--late stoppage in 10-12 rounds.