Well, so much for the credibility of those medical opinions because not only did he walk again, he went on to kick ass... again. What pre-plane crash fights of Willie Pep do you have? I only have the Walton fight, which has shite tracking and you can't tell from it how better Pep was pre-plane crash. He may have never been the same post plane crash, but I argue that he was more similar than is made out. As do I, but I don't really see why you'd rank him so high when in your opinion he illegitimately beat a past his prime Pep twice. For what it's worth, I have Saddler no.11 all time. But a good proportion of the reason why is that he beat Pep not once but thrice.
Nice post took what I said to another level. To me Peps past his prime and plane crash win over Saddler in the rematch is much more impressive then Saddlers combined 3 wins especially considering Saddlers dirty tactics to win the last fights. Infact Pep after the bad plane crash and coming off the KO loss in the 1st fight to come in and outbox Saddler ranks to me as one of the great victorys of all time up there with wins like RJJ over Toney,Hearns over Duran,Fraizer over Ali ETC.
sandy saddler had the absolute worst style for pep. A skilled tall long armed powerful puncher who was a great clutcher and very strong.....peps nightmare. yet ole willie still was able to overcome this and put one of the best performances ever of any fighter adapting to that nightmare and bouncing back in adveristy to win a clear unanimous decision over saddler in the 2nd fight. Impeccible performance to regain his title. then pep continued his assault in the 3rd and 4th fights before saddler discolated peps shoulder and nearly ripped his eye out so he coudldn't see.
Pep broke his back in the plane crash, if thats not enough to tell you he wasnt the same physically in his return i dont know what is. Pep went on to kick ass because even pep not at his best can still fight. there are 3-4 fights of pep pre clane crash. mccalister fight is one of the. Willie pep was in a plane crash for crying out loud, he broke his back!! he was clearly not the same! you would not be the same if you broke ur back in a plane crash. hell if you survived a plane crash i doubt you would walk again, let alone fight. This wasnt just some toy plane that fell in grandmas haystack, this was a serious plane crash with people killed. Saddler dominated and knocked out pep in 4 rounds, he deserves a ton of credit for doing this. past his prime or not, no one does this to pep. saddler did it. This was the only uncontroversial win saddler as over pep......but he did beat pep 3, and pep even in the late 1940s post plane crash was still clearly a great fighter. I think pep started to really decline in the early 1950s. Even on Peps best day saddler always gives him huge fits because he is peps nightmare style......A tall long skilled powerful hitting boxer with a rough and tough style. Saddler ranks high because he had a very good title reign, held a junior lightweight title reign, beat outstanding competition at featherweight and lightweight, and on film hes a nightmare for most in history h2h
Also I might add in a big era of racism, and lack of oppertunities for black fighters..Willie Pep deserves all the credit for taking on the top black fighters of his era. He could have easily hid behind the color line and not gave saddler a chance like Gus Lesnevich and Tony Zale were doing.
You see Saddler was alot like a stronger version of tommy hearns at 147lb with the physical tools long arms power jab and skills it made him damm hard to beat. Pep lacked a knockout punch(not to be confused with punching abilities which pep did have), and he was giving up huge measurements to saddler and he couldnt outslug him and with saddlers long arms and jab he couldnt box him at long range.....so pep used his defensive wizardy to get in mid range(pep didnt want to get inside because saddler wicked strong would get rough and dirty tossing pep around so pep always wanted to be at mid range. When he would sneak his way into midrange, he would unleash his 4-5 punch fluid combinations then dance back out of out harms way and repeat the process. He kept to the game plan for 15 rounds, saddler just couldnt catch him this time his defense was too slick and cute..this time he was able to succesfully parry saddlers long jab all night. He slipped ducked weaved moved saddler all around to make him off balance. he took saddler off his game plan. He fought the perfect fight in the 2nd fight and he won.
Some people have been known to make tremendous recoveries from serious injuries you know. No doubt it was a bad injury, I'm not denying that at all. Really? The only McAllister-Pep fight I've heard (and have seen) that is available is the 3rd encounter, which is post-plane crash. I didn't know one of the first two was available. Have you seen it? Can you please describe to me some of the action in it? It's a miracle! I think the Pep wins are massive in determining Saddler's standing. I mean, taking the Pep wins outside of his ledger, he wouldn't see the light of a top 50 based on the rest of his resume.
I'd like to see this pre-plane crash footage of Willie Pep. Pep looks amazing in the post-plane crash stuff, the 2nd Saddler fight etc. I have about 4 or 5 Pep fights, and he looks incredible. If there's a vast and noticeable difference pre-plane crash then I just cannot even begin to imagine how good he looks.
I wouldn't say its "vast difference", but its noticeable, mainly his footspeed is faster, and reflexes are a bit sharper and his body movement is swifter. its like comparing a early 1970s ali vs the 1960s ali i would say.
Maybe so, but I consider Willie Pep post plane crash still a great fighter(kind of like an early 1970s ali was still a great fighter) when Saddler beat him. Those 3rd and 4th fights were very dirty physically demaning affairs they both took alot out of pep and saddler....the really dirty 4th fight ruined pep....he was never the same after that one. Soon after that loss, pep drifted off and began taking dives for the mobsters, ugly business. Even without the pep victories saddler has a very impressive resume in my view with wins over multiple hall of famers
The Ring, April 1949: Pep, the new Old Master, needed every trick in his vast repertoire to pull out ahead of the lanky, vicious-punching Saddler in as bitter a brawl as the Garden has housed in some little time. ... But, with all his consummate cunning, with all his speed, skill and experience, Pep had several close calls from disaster, and was the more battered of the two at the finish. Saddler forced the action from the start. He never stopped stalking Pep. But going into the tenth round, Sandy was far behind in points. He just couldn't seem to compete with the veteran's bewildering assortment of ticks. In the tenth, however, he finally nailed his elusive opponent with a savage right to the chin. Willie's legs buckled, and he seemed about to go down. Saddler tore into him, slamming away with both hands. But Pep, though hurt, knew enough to beat a hasty retreat around the ring, and to hold on desperately in close quarters, until his head cleared. Again, in the fourteenth, Saddler rocked Pep with an explosive left hook, but the round ended before the skinny Harlemite could follow up his advantage. The fifteenth and final stanza was the roughest of them all for Pep. Realizing his only chance of winning was to knock Willie out, Saddler cut loose with everything he had. He chased the fast-tiring veteran for nearly two minutes, but finally caught up to him, and doubled Pep over with a vicious two-handed body pounding. His face a sorry mess of cuts and bruises, Willie was near exhaustion in that dramatic last minute of the furious brawl. His legs rubbery, his eyes glassy, Pep would not go down. He clutched Saddler with arms in a grip from which Sandy could not fight himself loose. When they finally were separated, Saddler missed a wild right, and fell against the ropes. Pep grabbed him from behind in another embrace that required all the strength of Referee Eddie Joseph, a heavyweight, to break.
Thanks for the report Senya. :good As can be seen from this report, Pep certainly didn't have it all his own way against Saddler and had to use his full repetoire to pull it out.
The book will never close on this one but in terms of who beats who Saddler wins no matter what version of Pep it is. Saddler just had the style and physical attributes to beat Pep.
care to elaborate? Saddler Pep series is essentially 1-1 with 2 controversial endings with pep well ahead on points.