"Schmeling-Walker"... Was this necessary?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by MRBILL, Apr 11, 2010.

  1. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    What an old shopworn chunky Mickey Walker accomplished,the last years of his career, beating the likes of heavies such as these guys..Bearcat Wright, Johnny Risko,tough Paolino Uzcudun, Maxie Rosenbloom, drawing with a prime Jack Sharkey, and taking all that the peak Max Schmeling
    could dispense, makes me appreciate what the battle between the two titans, Greb-Walker, must have been...Has their ever been a better
    pair of middleweights fighting each other in their primes circa 1925 ?
    I think not...
     
  2. Duodenum

    Duodenum Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    On July 4, 1925, Harry Keck wrote in the Pittsburgh Gazette Times that, "Harry Greb has lost considerable of the speed in his legs. He was not as fast in moving about as he once was; yet he was considerably faster than the lighter Mickey Walker." Greb competed at around ten pounds more than Walker, and he used his weight advantage to wear Mickey down as the fight progressed.

    Greb's foot speed may have been noticeably reduced at 31, but it's also fair to point out that Mickey would not mature into a full sized middleweight until Tommy Milligan, two years later. (That version of the Toy Bulldog wouldn't have been worn down by the weight advantage Greb used in 1925, and he obviously got far better at dealing with much heavier opposition. McTigue was the only full blown middleweight he'd ever taken on prior to Greb.) So while it can be suggested that they were in their primes, I would certainly state that Harry was clearly post peak, while Walker was pre peak.
     
  3. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Very true what you say...I think that the fact that Harry Greb,was
    considerably past his peak in 1925[he would die one year later], while
    Walker was reaching his prime..He was after all 24 years old then,and
    beat tough Dave Shade soon after...So,they nullify each other ,I think...
    The fact that Walker whipped Dave Shade 2 months later proves that
    Walker by the age of 24, was by 1925 a formidable opponent...
     
  4. MRBILL

    MRBILL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Greb was a solid 160 pounder, while Walker was a fit weltwerweight..... I have no clue what the most weight Greb ever carried into the ring, but I doubt it was anything like the 170+ pounds Walker dragged into the ring back in '31 against Max Schmeling........

    I'd have loved to have seen "Greb-Walker" in '25, but Greb had some gas left over in his tank at age 29....... I'm just curious if Greb was able to read the goddamn eye chart in 1925, because, he was nearly blind when he lost to Tiger Flowers in early '26........

    Greb kicked-off on the doc's table in Oct. of 1926 while undergoing eye and sinus surgery....

    MR.BILL:bbb:deal
     
  5. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Greb in 1925 was thirty one years old...
    Yes he died one year later from an operation, and just ONE year later, his great rival Tiger Flowers also died on the operating table...
    Eery or what !
     
  6. MRBILL

    MRBILL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Burt,

    Very erie....:shock:

    BUT! My records indicate that Greb was hatched in 1895 and kicked-off in 1926 at age 31.........:deal

    I'm not sure how old Flowers was when he dropped dead.......:huh

    MR.BILL:thumbsup
     
  7. Duodenum

    Duodenum Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    In the same hospital, at the same age, and at the hands of the same doctor. While being wheeled in, Flowers had them stop momentarily, and asked, "Say, isn't this the same hospital were Harry Greb died?" The doctor confirmed it, but then assured him, "But you're tougher than he was Tiger. You proved that." Unfortunately, death was tougher than both of them.
     
  8. bodhi

    bodhi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    That´s spooky.
     
  9. Duodenum

    Duodenum Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Perhaps the eeriest story of 1920s boxing were the parallel deaths of Greb and Flowers, weird coincidences which were a vivid part of the sport's lore a few decades ago, but have faded from the collective memory in recent years as those alive who recalled it have passed on.
     
  10. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Mr.Bill Harry Greb was born on June 6, 1894, by all accounts, which made him 31 years old in 1925...
     
  11. MRBILL

    MRBILL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I hate that..... I was really born in 1867....... GODDAMMIT!!

    MR.BILL
     
  12. MRBILL

    MRBILL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Walker was game, but too tubby at 178 + or - pounds against Schmeling who looked well tuned at 190+ pounds...... Walker was way outta his league against the German....

    MR.BILL
     
  13. JWSoats

    JWSoats Active Member Full Member

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    The following is from The Million Dollar Gate, the autobiography of Jack "Doc" Kearns, who managed Mickey Walker. It provides some insight as to what Walker's camp was thinking in 1932"

    "To keep Walker in the public eye, so that he might meet the winner of the Sharkey-Schmeling return bout, I lined up two heavyweight bouts. The first was against 'King' Levinsky in Chicago, and I almost fainted when Mickey walked out in the first round and the 'Kingfish' dropped him to the deck. But thereafter Mickey wrapped it up. Things began to look even better for us when he knocked off Paolino Uzcudun, the wood-chopping Basque, in New York. But then, a week before Sharkey decisioned Schmeling to take the heavyweight title, we lost a decision to Johnny Risko in Cleveland. So I settled for a shot at the beaten Schmeling, figuring that if we whipped him we'd get the Sharkey match.

    "There was one major drawback. Walker no longer could work up the enthusiasm to train as relentlessly as was necessary in order to battle the big boys successfully. When we squared off against Schmeling in Madison Square Garden that September night, I knew we didn't have a ghost of a chance. Even so, Mickey gave it a gallant try. He stayed in there and gave it everything he had while Schmeling smashed him to the canvas like a rubber ball. By the eighth round, while Mickey might have been able to take it a little longer, I couldn't. I told them to stop the fight.

    "I guess this was one we couldn't win, Mick," I told him sadly.

    "Mickey spat out a mouthful of blood, focused on me with his bleary eyes, and gave me a crooked grin.

    "Speak for yourself, 'Doc', he said with all his old cockiness. "You threw in the sponge, not me."
     
  14. Nemesis

    Nemesis Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Didnt Carpentier hold pro titles (national, european etc) from batamweight upwards?
     
  15. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    Styles SQ .. Sharkey was highly skilled but he was at times poorly conditioned, inconsistent and not a big puncher .. Schmeling was always a well conditioned sharp shooter and a very good right hand puncher ... it was a much tougher match up for Schmeling ...