scientific training methods often dont work...sports science vs practical experience

Nobody is denying most bodybuilders do the main powerlifts. It was your very broad statement of "there has never been a bodybuilder who did not squat,bench and deadlifted reguarly" that was pointed out and proved by myself to be bull****.

 

Nobody has claimed this. Just because you're being corrected or told you're outright wrong doesn't mean the person telling you you're wrong knows it all.

There are people like that around, but what makes you think this is the case here?

Instead of attacking the person, like you do the majority of the time due to lack of knowledge and maturity, how about you at least attempt to prove the person wrong instead of shouting "Haha. You're gay and probably a skinny Chinese guy!".

Most bodybuilders bulk up and look like a fat mess for x amounts of months a year. Do we ignore all their advice until they cut x months later and they have 6% bodyfat?

Heavyweight powerlifters can be pretty ****ing fat yet they're strong as ****. Do we ignore their strength training advice because they're not the most aesthetically pleasing site in the gym?

Marathon runners can be very underweight and look like an anorexic mess, yet they seem to know how to run 20+ miles with ease. Do we ignore their distance running tips because they look like skeletons?

Some of the things you say make you look ridiculous immature and stupid. Looks don't mean everything.

In some areas you may do. The difference is Kai Greene has an incredible understanding of his personality and body. He knows how to get the best out of himself and to push his body to the limit, that doesn't necessarily take knowledge.

 

It takes steroids. Folks on steroids do not need to nearly have the understanding of their bodies and how they respond as those who are not using. I've heard many athletes talk about this. Not saying he doesn't work hard, but it certainly is a lot easier when you have chemical enhancement.

I realize this is rather off context of what you guys were talking about though. I don't at this point know where most of this post is going so I figured I would trail it off further.

 

I half agree and half disagree.

In terms of bodybuilding steroids don't really make the job any easier, they allow you to push yourself harder for longer which guys like Kai do.

When you're talking about a sport where performance enhancers give an advantage then yes, they do make the job easier, but in a sport like drugged bodybuilding where they're an every day thing that everyone else has access to there's no real advantage over others. You have to push yourself just as hard as your opponent as they're taking the same **** making it an even playing field.

I'm only talking in terms of bodybuilding.

 

Okay, fair enough and makes sense.:good Now then, while everyone has the same access, do you feel that the most important thing is in the training and programming, or the work outside of the gym for a steroid using bodybuilder? Work meaning eating every 3 hours, 1.5-2 x protein, sleep, and so forth. In my opinion, having a good understanding of how and what drugs to take would be extremely important as well. Just would like your take Virus.

On a side note with my experiences in bodybuilding, I did an NPC show back in 1996 called Body Rock. It was my first of two shows I ever did. Anyways, I did the novice class and placed third, but it was ridiculous the difference between the novice and open classes. A steroid using bodybuilder is about the easiest thing in the world to pick out. In addition, I did a "drug free" Mr. Annapolis and there were a few guys there who were bigger than those in the NPC show. They were obviously not clean either.

 

Oh, and I realize genetics are huge, steroids or not.

 

I disagree.

Although you will see a lot of chebs in your average gym who take steroids to try and compensate for a lack of patience or knowledge (usually both), at that level it is completely different. The 'chemical enhancement' that those are using is on a whole different level to the average gym goer, things such as insulin etc can very easily send you in to a coma and kill you. They have to worry about a lot more than just lifting weights and eating enough food.

Not something I have a massive interest in tbh and not really a route I want to see the thread go down, but I think it was a bit of an unfair criticism.

That really pisses me off, to be honest. In bodybuilding and powerlifting you have the choice of competing un-tested or tested; if you care enough about a trophy to spend thousands on drugs (since there is practically no money in un-tested bodybuilding), you are incredibly sad IMO.

 

I don't think you could pick out the most important part, drug free or not. Without the correct nutrition you're not gaining/losing/maintaining weight. You're not getting the energy you need, protein to rebuild, hormone balance etc etc. Programming is equally important. Overloading the muscle optimally in a progressive manner without over training isn't always easy.

Steroids can **** you up and even kill you if you don't know what you're doing. Obviously this is another important subject to know about.

I really couldn't say one of the above is more important than the other as they all need to be done correctly or you're going nowhere.

 

Thanks, have you guys read Eat Stop Eat by Brad Pilon on intermittent fasting? While it is certainly not a new concept it not very marketable in our culture nor the bodybuilding industry. I rarely "drink the Kool Aid" but have been doing his lifestyle suggestions and they really have worked for me as the book is a shot of common sense. He claims that the "eat every 3 hours and you have to take in much higher protein levels" to be not grounded in research" for typical, non chemical using individuals and talks about the benefits of intermittent fasting. Yes, his stuff is geared toward body composition and bodybuilding as this is his interest.

I don't bring it up on here or with other guys I talk with at the gym because most would discredit it without looking into it.

On another note JDSM, yes it was frustrating and really made me stop doing it on any kind of a competitive basis. I certainly enjoy boxing way more and got into MMA shortly afterwards.

As for the other comment, I didn't know that the drug use was this sophisticated. I was trained for my first show by former Miss Los Angeles. She said that they(meaning she and her friends) used to joke that a former Ms. Olympia's contest diet was Snickers and Dbol. Now, she competed in the 1980s maybe before the drug use got extremely sophisticated, I don't know. She would tell me stories of several of the top male bodybuilders at the time doing gay porn on the side(at this point I can't remember there names but know they would place middle of the pack at shows). Anyways, I guess if these guys are using things such as insulin then that is just stupid. As a shrink I would guess that these may be some very emotionally fragile individuals.

 

Did you teach yourself or do you have a coach for weightlifting?

Learning to snatch and clean properly is a pain in the ass to do by yourself, but hiring a coach is expensive as hell. The best I could think of right now is maybe join a crossfit gym and just focus on the weightlifting part of it. :-(

Any suggestions? I've been watching lots of form videos in an attempt to correct my own, but I still suck at it. If all else fails, I might just stick with powerlifting. :think

 

1)This has no sense.And you are very wrong,so if i want to be a s&c coach for a deep sea diver i have to be a an ex deep sea diver,or an astronaut should i go to space?This can be done for every profession btw.LOL

2)Did you ever see a nutrition of a bodybuilder?Its the same over and over and over.There is no versatility.I have yet to see a bodybuilder make a good nutrition program for an athlete.They know only one thing.
Training?They do the same stuff every time,ask them about any form or strength training aside from bodybuilding training they get lost.