Scoring Mayweather/Canelo with a special guest

Agreed, a Canelo round for me as well. I've included a lot of timestamps from the youtube fan cam video for this round and attached a number of screenshots showing shots landed that couldn't be seen very well from the Showtime cameras.

[Fan cam for Round 2 starts at 16:51 of youtube video]

Round 2 : The round starts with both fighters sizing each other up at center ring. Canelo does a feint, Floyd once again reacts. Canelo half-way throws a jab then pulls back. Canelo throws a jab that Floyd appears to block with his gloves. (bad camera angles here) Then Floyd tries a feint, but Canelo doesn’t flinch or react at all to it. It’s obvious Canelo is way better at getting his opponent to react to a feint than Floyd is. Floyd then throws a jab but Canelo steps back and avoids it. Both lean forward into each other and get into a mini-clinch, the ref tells them to work out of it and Floyd throws a right hook that appears to be blocked by Canelo's left glove. Canelo throws a jab to the body and it lands on Floyd’s arm. At 2:29 remaining in the round, (about 17:21 in the youtube fan cam video) Canelo once again feints hard and Floyd reacts again. This is getting ridiculous. We’re just into the 2nd round, and we’re already into double digit successful Canelo feints. At this point, Canelo may have more successful feints than landed punches lmao. The amount of feints that Canelo pulls off successfully in this fight has got to be record setting for a prize fight.

Floyd then proceeds to throw a jab to the body to the belt-line that was also pushed away by Canelo's right glove. Canelo then counters with a jab that lands on the top of Floyd’s shoulder / side of his head as he ducks away. (thanks to the youtube fan camera here as you cannot see that this landed with the TV camera angle - see 17:23 in the youtube fan camera video - screenshot https://i.imgur.com/E7m5rTA.jpg) Now that we know that shoulder shots can be scored, this is in fact a scoring shot. And we have Floyd's head well below Canelo's waist which is also technically a foul.

Canelo then feints yet again and Floyd bites, flinching hard and backing away. Floyd then lunges in with a left hook that is short and hits Canelo’s left glove. Canelo skillfully counters with a jab that Floyd ducks under and the punch lands on Floyd’s back as he’s ducking. - 17:26 in youtube fan cam video - screenshot https://imgur.com/DIQSIK1.jpg

Then with 2:23 remaining in the round, Floyd tries to feint Canelo for a change, and Canelo subtly reacts to it slightly backing away. But not to be outdone in the feinting duel that Canelo is dominating thus far, Canelo counters Floyd’s feint with a hard feint of his own and Floyd majorly flinches like whoa lol. Then Canelo feints a 2nd time and Floyd flinches yet again. This is a Canelo feinting clinic thus far. Canelo then skillfully parries a Floyd jab. (Points scored for Defense) Canelo counters it with a jab to the body that appears to be partially blocked (hard to see due to camera angle) and follows that up with a right hand to the body that Floyd evades by moving away.

Then Floyd manages to land a solid jab right through Canelo’s guard. Floyd goes on to fake two jabs, setting up a landed jab to the top of Canelo’s head. Canelo then does another feint, and gets Floyd to react again as Floyd retreats. Floyd’s in the shoulder roll defense, but Floyd sticks his left arm out and Canelo manages to land a jab to the body. Floyd then gets in another jab through the Canelo’s guard, but this time Canelo quickly counters with a hard jab of his own that lands right on Floyd’s chin, followed by a jab to the body that lands in between Floyd’s gloves. With 1:55 remaining in the round, Canelo skillfully blocks a Floyd jab and quickly counters with a left hook that lands on Floyd’s right arm, followed by a straight right hand to the side of Floyd’s body right on the belt-line as Floyd is moving away. Floyd then manages to land a jab to the body, then Floyd lands a quick jab that appears to land through the guard. (hard to tell) Canelo misses with a right hand as Floyd moves away. Floyd then in the shoulder roll blocks a left hook to the body attempt by Canelo with his glove, then Canelo manages to connect on a straight right hand that lands on the left side of Floyd’s body just above the belt-line that sends Floyd crashing into the ropes. Floyd responds with a solid jab through Canelo’s guard, and then ducks under a Canelo counter jab, a punch that lands on Floyd’s back as he’s ducking. Floyd then grabs Canelo and Canelo has Floyd in a headlock. The ref calls for a break. After they resume, Floyd throws a jab that Canelo skillfully parries to the right with his gloves. Canelo then feints again and Floyd as usual reacts. Then with 1:25 left in the round Canelo again feints hard and Floyd’s knees nearly buckle biting hard on yet another feint by Canelo. At 1:22 left in the round, Canelo feints yet again, Floyd slightly reacts. Then Canelo gets in a jab to the body, which probably had a lot to do with all the feints. These are the punches that I think people are missing in regards to this fight. A lot of people probably just assume that Floyd is blocking all this jabs to the body by Canelo. A lot of them are actually landing, many of them are landing in between Floyd’s gloves. These are point scoring punches and they need to be taken into account. Canelo has managed to set up these punches with all these feints early and it’s something Floyd obviously wasn’t prepared for.

 

Round 2 continued

With 1:20 left in the round Canelo lands a hard left hook that hits Floyd right below the ear. Floyd comes back with an inside short right hand from short range that lands on Canelo’s chin, followed by two short Floyd left hooks that both miss. Canelo then throws a jab to the body that Floyd manages to parry at the last moment and push the punch down. Floyd counters with a right uppercut that misses completely as Canelo pulls back and avoids it. Canelo gives Floyd some head movement moving his head left and it works as Floyd throws a jab and it just grazes the right top of his head. Canelo throws a right hand to the body that lands on Floyd’s left arm, Floyd counters with a right hand that misses high as Canelo is crouching. Floyd ducks under a Canelo jab, and pushes Canelo away. Floyd then lunges in with a jab to the body that misses as Canelo steps back and avoids the punch. Floyd then throws a jab and Canelo doesn’t block it but appears to narrowly avoid the punch by moving away. I thought it may have grazed Canelo’s forehead but on the reverse angle it didn’t appear to actually land. Floyd then lunges in with a left hook that misses wildly, and Canelo counters with a well placed jab that lands behind Floyd’s head on the back of his neck as Floyd tries to duck the punch. Canelo then throws a right hand that misses. Canelo feints again, Floyd flinches. Canelo then feints hard two more times twice in a row, Floyd flinches and reacts both times.

Floyd then lands a hard jab right through the guard that lands flush. Canelo responds with a jab that’s just short as Floyd backs away. Floyd then lands another flush jab through the guard, Canelo counters with a straight right that misses short, then Canelo throws a left hand that appears to just graze Floyd as he’s moving away. Floyd then misses short with a jab to the body, Canelo steps back to avoid it. Floyd reaches with a jab, but Canelo steps back and avoids that as well. Floyd misses short with yet another jab. Floyd then throws another jab, this time Canelo intelligently parries the jab away and down with his right glove and counters with a good left hand jab that lands right below Floyd’s left armpit, which pushes Floyd back. Floyd then resets and throws a jab, it misses short as Canelo pulls back and avoids it. Canelo attempts to counter with a left hook but it misses. Canelo lands a one-two left-right that both land on Floyd’s left arm, followed by a left hook by Canelo that misses as Floyd backs away. Believe it or not, Canelo feints yet again and Floyd bites reacting to it while in the shoulder roll defense. With Floyd still in the shoulder roll, Canelo lands a double jab that hits Floyd’s left arm (the first one may have gotten through to the body) followed by a straight right that hits Floyd’s left arm.

Floyd backs away then Floyd throws a jab through the guard that narrowly misses short as Canelo pulls back just in time. Then Canelo lands a jab to the body, followed by a left hook that cracks Floyd across the face, and that gets a nice reaction from the crowd. Canelo then throws a jab to the body that may have been blocked, which was hard to see from the camera angle with Floyd’s back facing the camera. Floyd then throws a jab but it misses short, then he throws a left hook that Canelo skillfully blocks, followed by a right hook to the body that misses as Canelo steps away. Floyd appears to get in a right hand upstairs right before the round ended, it may have only grazed Canelo. Wasn’t a big punch but it appeared to glancingly land. Floyd then grabs Canelo for a clinch to end the round.

The best punches of the round may have been the 2 hard jabs from Floyd that got through the guard with about 45-50 seconds left in the round, the 2 hard left hooks Canelo landed during the round, and that hard counter jab that Canelo landed a minute into the round. Canelo’s defensive arsenal was on fully display in this round and it was impressive. In this round, Canelo parried a lot of punches which is very hard to do especially vs Floyd. Defense is one of the criteria of scoring a round and in this round Canelo clearly won this category. He was blocking and evading most of Floyd’s jabs throughout the round. Floyd did land a few jabs to the head, but I preferred Canelo’s hooks to the head as well as the variety of punches from Canelo. This was a relatively close round compared to the first round, but I thought Canelo clearly won this round and Canelo ended the round strong in the last 30 seconds, including that 3 punch combination with the right hook, combined with Floyd missing a lot of jabs towards the end of the round.

And of course how can we ignore the massive mount of feints thus far? Canelo literally has successfully feinted Floyd nearly 30 times already and we’re only 2 rounds into the fight. This is unheard of. Every single time he’s gotten Floyd to react. We need to credit the repeated punches to the shoulder / bicep area, the shots that Canelo landed on Floyd while Floyd was dipping down low, plus the repeated jabs to the body by Canelo that got through the guard, the hard jabs to the face, plus the strong finish in the final 30 seconds including the clean left hook. 10-9 Canelo.

Screens from the Fan Camera in Round 2:

https://i.imgur.com/E7m5rTA.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/DIQSIK1.jpg

Feint Mastery: https://i.imgur.com/2xCGSgt.jpg
Jab to the body: https://i.imgur.com/UukTAFj.jpg

Head snapping jab
https://i.imgur.com/jpG2syy.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ERqtOzb.jpg
Followed up by jab to body between gloves:
https://i.imgur.com/r2gpu1l.jpg

Jab to body below gloves:
https://i.imgur.com/qWBsQPR.jpg

Counter jab to face (fan cam timestamp 19:03)
https://i.imgur.com/F7OteLa.jpg

Well placed jab to body (fan cam timestamp 19:19)
https://i.imgur.com/PpJfAuI.jpg

Jab avoidance (fan cam timestamp 19:23)
https://i.imgur.com/fSjWmTG.jpg

Jab avoidance (fan cam timestamp 19:32)
https://i.imgur.com/NDPIED0.jpg

Arm Punches in Round 2:
https://i.imgur.com/ktgSr2g.jpg

 

Round 3 : Starts out as a jabbing contest. Canelo gets in a hard jab to the chest on Floyd, and Canelo throws a left hook that just barely comes up short while Floyd is pulling away. Canelo avoids a Floyd jab. Canelo then gets in a jab landing flush on the face through Floyd’s guard. Floyd then responds by landing a jab flush through Canelo’s guard. Floyd throws a jab, Canelo narrowly avoids it. Floyd throws another jab, Canelo blocks and parries it with his glove, resulting in a clinch. Canelo feints Floyd and Floyd bites hard, nearly falling over. Floyd throws another jab, it’s partially blocked, yet it grazes Canelo’s forehead as Canelo slips it. Another clinch. Floyd throws a left hand to the body, Canelo sees it coming and moves away causing Floyd to punch through air. Canelo slips another Floyd jab. Canelo gets in a glancing left hook that’s partially blocked but seemed to land, followed by a right that grazes Floyd’s back as he does the shoulder roll, followed by a left hook by Canelo that lands on the side of Floyd’s head behind the guard which causes Floyd to move away. Floyd tries to land a jab to the body, but it’s short as Canelo moves away, Canelo counters with a jab to the head upstairs that lands, followed by a right hand body punch that grazes Floyd’s body just above the guard below Floyd’s left elbow as he moves away. Floyd manages to get a jab in. Another jab by Floyd lands, this one with more force. Another jab lands upstairs for Floyd, partially blocked but definitely landed. Canelo throws a left hook and Floyd avoids it moving away. Canelo blocks a Floyd jab attempt to the body. Canelo blocks two Floyd jabs, a 3rd Floyd jab is partially blocked but gets through. Floyd lands a really good {left-left-right} 3 punch combo that gets Canelo’s attention. The first jab was blocked, however Floyd angled the left into a straight and the 2nd left landed completely unblocked, then the over hand right that followed was mostly blocked, but seemed to graze Canelo’s face, altogether an impressive 3 punch combo by Floyd. On replay, it became apparent that the over hand right actually was mostly blocked, it may have grazed Canelo’s face coming across right to left, but it definitely collided with the glove, not the face, so it may have been counted as a hit grazing the face, but it wasn’t the big punch it seemed to be in real-time. Another good one two by Floyd, the right hand landed. Canelo slips a Floyd jab, and Canelo counters with a glancing right hand to the chest. It wasn’t blocked, Floyd was moving away, it grazed Floyd. Floyd lands a jab through the guard, Canelo counters with a hard jab of his own that lands flush. Floyd hits the rope and Canelo follows it up with a hard jab with impact to Floyd’s head. Canelo slips a Floyd jab with head movement. Canelo’s got Floyd on the ropes : Canelo throws a left hand to the shoulder, followed by another left hand to the shoulder, Floyd ducks way down, the right hand lands on Floyd’s back, followed by a low left hook by Canelo that connects with the top of Floyd’s head as he was ducking. This seemed to affect Floyd’s equilibrium as it’s followed by another left by Canelo partially blocked by Floyd, but it moves Floyd and Floyd has to reset. Canelo once again feints Floyd and Floyd bites hard. (this is a reoccurring theme lol) Both men land simultaneous jabs that are both partially blocked and partially slipped. Then Floyd throws a jab that is intelligently blocked and parried (pushed aside) by Canelo. Canelo misses a one-two left jab, right hand to the body as Floyd avoids it. Canelo throws another one-two left jab, right hand to the body only this time the right hand lands flush on Floyd’s body, but Floyd immediately counters with a left hook that lands flush right on the side of Canelo’s face. (not particularly hard but right on the side of the face unblocked) Floyd throws a wild one-two and both punches miss. Canelo counters with a jab followed by a hard right uppercut that seems to graze the top of Floyd’s head as he’s ducking. Floyd goes for a right jab to the body that is blocked by Canelo. Right before the round ends Canelo punctuates the round with a stiff jab to the face.

This was a very interesting round, truly a roller coaster of a round. and a round that at one point it seemed like Floyd was on his way to winning. This is truly a toss up round, probably deserved to be a 10-10 round with both men having their moments however Canelo finished the round strong and I thought he edged it. The 3 punch combo was good from Floyd, though two out of the 3 punches did not really connect aside from gloves, but the 2nd left hand (the left straight) surprised Canelo. Canelo was the aggressor in this round, he was chasing Floyd around the ring, Floyd was on his back foot and at times seemed confused by Canelo’s movement. We also had once again multiple Canelo feints with Floyd biting on them. Just a tremendous round. In this round, Canelo was starting to get more comfortable and was quickly becoming fully immersed in the fight. 10-9 Canelo.

 

Round 3 was a very hard round to score. In my mind, it could have gone either way, but I gave my reasons and pointed out why in my summary. I suggest we stay on the first 3 rounds before moving on to Round 4.

What I did notice about round 1 is that for me this was a clear Mayweather round while you said it was close. So we differ on how close that round was, but agree on who won, but with round 3 we differ on how close round 3 was and who won it. So we definitely need to take a closer look at round 3. Even though we agreed on Round 2, take a look at my notes and screenshots. Maybe I should do that for Round 3 as well. Many of those shots that I screencapped in Round 2 were hard to see from the showtime camera, so I used the fan camera and gave timestamps. I'm glad you noticed all the shoulder / bicep / arm punches that round but many of those were not easy to see from the Showtime camera.

I'm a lot more confident that Canelo won Round 2 than he won Round 3. I think Round 3 is a lot closer than you say it was and I think we really need to go in depth into that round. Maybe go through my summary and see if you disagree with any of that. So you scoring that round to Floyd is perfectly fine with me, but I don't think you can say that was a clear round, it was very much a toss-up for me so I really need to know why you think that was such a clear Mayweather round.

 

Can you watch Round 3 again, this time in real-time maybe watch it from the fan cam this time to get a different view (with the fan cam watch with sound on) and pay attention to Canelo's work and then decide if it's reasonable to score that round to Canelo. Try to see what I'm seeing that round and understand why I scoerd it that way. Don't just auto-score it to Mayweather. By the way, 2 out of the 3 judges scored Round 3 to Canelo, Dave Moretti and CJ Ross. Interestingly Round 3 was the only round out of the first 8 that Moretti gave to Canelo. So he obviously saw something to give that round to Canelo.

 

Another note to keep in mind here is that Metcalfe and Moretti had Mayweather ahead 7 rounds to 1 after 8 rounds. So they were essentially just auto-scoring rounds for Mayweather, except for rounds 2 and 3. Metcalfe gave Canelo Round 2 and Moretti gave Canelo Round 3. Ross's card is all over the place, as an example she scored Round 1 to Canelo and Round 2 to Mayweather.

Before we even get into Round 4, we really need to dissect Round 3 to understand what happened there. Because if you don't understand what happened in Round 3, then Round 4 is gonna be a blur because a lot happens in Round 4 and you'll may end up auto-scoring rounds for Mayweather. I suggest for every round we disagree on, you watch from the fan cam. Some parts of the rounds are missing in the fan cam, but I think round 3 is mostly there so definitely give Round 3 a fan cam watch before moving on to Round 4. Round 4 is a crazy round, so lets not put the cart before the horse. We should deal with Round 3 before moving on so we're on the same page for as long as possible.

 

Explain to me how Floyd won Round 3 clearly. Dave Moretti and I disagree. How do you not see that as a close round that could go either way? Go through my punch summary.

 

Here's the problem with scoring round 3 for Floyd. Canelo starts the round strong. Canelo ends the wrong strong. Canelo traps Floyd on the ropes during the round, landing 2 shoulder shots with Floyd pinned on the ropes. The 3 punch combo by Floyd looked great in real-time. Floyd put the punches well together but only 1 of those 3 actually landed. Canelo gets extra points for intelligently blocking and parrying a Floyd jab skillfully pushing it aside. Also Canelo makes Floyd miss several punches wildly in this round. A close round because Floyd did land some good shots, but when you start the round playing from behind, getting hit with hard jabs, then end the round getting hit with a stiff jab, it's very hard to win the round. Did you notice the stiff jab to the chest to start the round by Canelo, then the hard jab between the guard by Canelo. And the stiff jab by Canelo to end the round?

 

It's not mental gymnastics at all. My summary is a very accurate account of what happened that round. Canelo started the round strong, with a stiff jab to the chest, then a hard jab through the guard. The middle of the round was very back and forth, with Canelo parrying multiple Floyd jabs, he made Floyd miss wildly several times, he made Floyd bite so hard on a feint Floyd nearly fell over, he pinned him on the ropes at one point landing 2 shoulder shots. Canelo landed several left hooks in the round, Floyd only landed 1 left hook in the round. Canelo landed a good right hand to the body towards the end of the round as well. So Canelo started the round strong with hard jabs, finished the round strong with a stiff jab, was the effective aggressor throughout this round and the ring general with the feints, won defense with the parries and he blocked several Floyd attempts at body shots. It was a very good Canelo round and definitely not a clear Maywaether round by any stretch of the imagination. If you think it's unreasonable to score that round for Canelo we have a problem lol.