Should Gene Tunney be in the all-time pound-for-pound top 10?

Getting the better of Greb in a 5 series, and beating Loughran is not a thin resume. Tunney also beat Gibbions and some guy named Dempsey twice.

 

Loughran fight should have been a draw.

 

I think a good case can be made for Gene Tunney to be top ten, given that;

1/ His first fight professional fight (and I think his first few) were actually as a welterweight, and in the marines he was a middleweight fighting lightheavys and heavyweights, it wasn't until he came back from his stint there that he could have been regarded as a fully fledged lightheavyweight - In the modern era he may very well have been a welterweight medallist at the olympics who ended up winning the heavyweight title.

2/ He defeated excellent lightheavyweights and heavyweights, managing never to be dropped for the ten count or even stopped (A sign of a truly great fighter perhaps, Ali and Ray Robinson never went down for ten)

3/ Skin colour is irrelevant - Only the quality and rank of the opponent is. If the heavyweight champion happened to be white, then I don't hold this against Gene. Those who have really done their research know that Harry Wills turned down an opportunity to fight Tunney and that's the bottom line. Wills wanted no part of Tunney

4/ Head to head I think he's a marvellous bet against anyone at 175 - He's a brilliant pure boxer with balls, grit and very few flaws. His style will match up against anyones.

 

I think he can be in without it being a bad list. I'd have him in the top 30 for sure.

 

WW1 vet but never saw action.Wills didnt want to fight him.Tunney didn't beat enough heavyweights to give him a top 10 p4p,maybe top 25.He may be the best LH of all time,imo.

 

First of all, the Loughran fight was razor close from what i've read, and Loughran was green, more so than Tunney. No rematch.


As for him having the better of Greb, did he really? He clearly lost the first and the second as well according to most sources. He also won two and drew.

The interesting thing to note here is that Tunney did better in the later fights of the series, when Greb started to decline badly. When they were closer to their bests, Greb got the better of it.

Not to mention that Greb is the smaller man. How impressive would Michael Spinks have been if he went even with Hagler?


The Dempsey wins are impressive for sure, but Dempsey was in the final stages of his career and certainly this alone is not enough for a top20 pound for pound spot. He also grew somewhat into heavyweight (by the time's standards); the size difference at the time of the fight wasn't big at all.

 

Greb isn't Hagler. Based on resume he's easily a top 10 light heavyweight, with wins over Loughran, Norfolk, Gibbons, and Rosenbloom. And yes, Tunney did win the series.

 

No doubt he's top10 LHW... but that's something else than top20 pound for pound, where you have to compete with all sorts of great fighters from various weight classes. And i find his resume to be somewhat thin compared to other legends.

 

I disagree with your assessment Chris.Tunney lost the first fight with Greb ,won the secondand third ,drew the fourth and easily won the fifth.Greb was nearer his peak than Tunney was ,infact after being badly beaten in their last fight Greb went 24 fights without a loss beating ,among other Walker ,Rojas , Rosenbloom,and Delaney he was unbeaten for 3 years,till Flowers dethroned him in 1926,the difference in their fights was that Tunney improved and matured physically until he was too good for Greb to handle.Loughran while a little short of his prime had had 30 fights when he met Tunney so he was certainly not green,neither was Gene at his peak.Greb won 1 fight the first ,when the weight disparity was at its biggest ,Tunney 174 1/2 .Greb 1621/4The three that Tunney won had less weight disparity,it wasnt just a case of a bigger man beating a smaller one ,but of a man reaching his near peak of skill and maturity.If Greb was declining ,as you say ,how come he went 3 years and 30 fights without a defeat after being outclassed by Tunney?

 

Fair enough, i'll have another look into it later.


It's hard to make a clear picture on the Greb fights, though. To make a comparison, Frazier beat Ali when Ali was a bit past his best and Frazier at his best. Then Ali twice beats Frazier when Joe has declined more than Ali has. Who really got the better of the series? Ali won the majority, but Frazier won the most important one.

 

Tunney would have always been a problem for Dempsey, Tunney had great foot movement, used the ring well and picked his punches, Dempsy's Marquee wins against guys like Willard and Firpo should also 'be taken with a grain of salt' as these guys were absolute bums, big bums but bums all the same ........ The Dempsey 'Myth-Makers' would have you believe he would have ko'd Louis and Ali in 2 rds a piece but in reality this is ridiculous ..... He wouldnt fight Wills, got knocked out by Fireman Jim Flynn (dubious) and was losing big time against Sharkey until he went for the 'balls' shot ..... People like the Dempsey 'myth' more but Tunney beat Greb 3 times, thats a far bigger achievement than any of Dempseys wins, Dempsey wouldnt even fight Greb due possibly/probably to Rickard but still nevertheless, lets not take shots at Tunney

 

Gene Tunney should not go as low as 20-25 but top ten is pushing it a bit.