Since we have largely agreed that Usyk's WSB fights count towards his legacy...

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by catchwtboxing, May 11, 2025 at 12:11 AM.


Does Joyce get in as a top ten win?

  1. Yes

    30.8%
  2. No

    69.2%
  1. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    ...would you put the Joyce fight as a top-ten win for him?

    A couple of weeks ago we voted pretty overwhelmingly that Usyk's WSB fights are fair game towards his legacy:

    https://www.boxingforum24.com/threa...lishments-to-contribute-to-his-legacy.735882/

    In December I posted a vote for his top ten wins so far, the results (with vote tally) as follows:

    https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/usyks-top-ten-victories-so-far.731140/

    Fury 1 9
    Briedis 9
    Joshua 1 9
    Dubois 9
    Gassiev 9
    Fury II 8
    Joshua II 8
    Chisora 8
    Bellew 7
    Hunter/Glowacki 5

    If we were including the WSB fights, would you vote for Joyce to bump Hunter/Glowacki?
    The main argument for it is that Joyce is a huge, hard-punching heavy who eventually won a gold medal and went on to have a great pro career before it crashed. I guess the main argument against it would be that it was a five round fight. Also, Joe was not at his best, yet.

    Of course, you could also vote another WSB win, but I thought that was the pick of the litter. The Nistor fight was awesome, and Majidov was an amateur standout, but neither really do much as professional opponents, and Fa, Mududgno and Brechlin really aren't much worth mentioning.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2025 at 12:22 AM
    Serge likes this.
  2. Kiwi Casual

    Kiwi Casual Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Imo it doesn't really count unless you want to artificially inflate his resume (which is good to begin with).
     
  3. AdamT

    AdamT Boxing Addict Full Member

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    No
    And if you need joyce to boost your all time standings, then it doesn't bode well compared to other greats with more than a dozen ranked wins
     
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    You can "agree" on whatever you like, amateur boxing won't count towards a professional record. If you want to do a whole-career appraisal just do one, and include the amateur careers of the boxers you are comparing him to. What's wrong with that?
     
  5. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    I think Joyce certainly counts in the sense of "could Usyk beat a huge, relentless fighter with granite chin and stamina for weeks ... but who is kinda slow?"
     
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  6. gollumsluvslave

    gollumsluvslave Boxing Addict Full Member

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    IMO Joyce counts maybe in a way towards depth, but not top 10 for me
     
    catchwtboxing and MarkusFlorez99 like this.
  7. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    WSB wasn't amateur boxing. It was an alternative professional league.
     
  8. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Usyk has 12 title fights and counting. He stacks up fine.

    Just asking what people think. I do top tens for all the heavyweight champs, which are voted on, in the classic section, and though Usyk's won't be in stone until he retires, it is fun to compare him to the past greats.


    https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/usyks-top-ten-victories-so-far.731140/

    https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/deontay-wilder-top-ten-victories.731726/

    david-hayes-top-ten-wins.731042

    wladimir-klitschko-top-ten-wins.730677

    https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/lennox-lewis-top-ten-wins-name-em.732855/

    https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/evander-holyfield-top-ten-name-em.733820/

    https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/riddick-bowe-top-ten-wins.732600/

    https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/iron-mike-tyson-top-ten-wins-name-em.732337/

    https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/michael-spinks-top-ten-wins.729753/

    https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/name-holmes-ten-best-wins.719448/

    https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/what-do-you-think-are-george-foremans-top-ten-wins.728980/

    joe-frazier-top-ten.732000

    https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/muhammad-ali-top-ten-victories-name-em.732074/

    https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/sonny-listons-top-ten-wins.731765/

    https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/rocky-marciano-top-ten-wins-name-em.736403/

    https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/joe-louis-top-ten-wins-name-em.734964/
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2025 at 7:58 AM
  9. Limerickbox

    Limerickbox Boxing Junkie Full Member

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  10. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Thread was included in opening post. Open it up and add your vote.
     
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Whatever it was, it took place before Boxrec, Wikipedia and Usyk17 Promotions claim he turned professional and is not included by any of these organisations in their written record for him. Wiki note specifically that the WSB took place before Usyk turned professional. I've never seen anyone of any repute list any of these WSB fights as a part of his professional record. So if you're appraising him as a professional it would seem odd to want to include these fights to me.

    That said, knock yourself out, it isn't hurting anybody but makes zero sense to me. And I feel pretty sure that absolutely nobody will be doing so in 15 years.
     
  12. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    That much faster, mongoose reflexes and reaction times apex prime version of Usyk who was a light on his feet and agile as a 135 pounder was better than the version that unified all the belts at HW and would've beaten all these HWs he's beat in the pros even clearer and if you stick that version in with all the greats of previous eras who he apparently stood no chance of beating according to these supposed self-appointed 'experts' worship at the altar of he bare minimum causes them absolute nightmares. But of course they act like this mid-late 30s version is the prime version of Usyk even though it's plain to see he has slowed down a lot.

    These self-appointed 'experts' whose opinions we are supposed to take seriously even though they all to a man told us the prime or closer to prime version at CW stood zero chance of becoming HW champion in this era, let alone becoming undisputed.
     
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  13. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Well, it seems to make sense to Serge.

    This is an ongoing thing that started long before Usyk. Now, in addition to the WSB, they have these IBA fights, and others, that are paid, professional fights with pro rules, that don't count in whoever decides is s pro record. The Russian prospect, Suslenkov, has a good win over Michael Hunter, for example, that is not being counted as it is under the auspices of the IBA.

    Thank you for you contribution. I think you speak for a number of people.
     
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Apparently it makes sense to the majority here, but Serge's post contains no information about whether or not Usyk's WBS run should be included in his appraisal.

    But Usyk is an enormously popular figure and if you set up any kind of vote "for" or against, he'll "win." Lots of people would casually agree. I don't mind anyone casually agreeing. I'm just pointing out that Ring, Boxrec and Oleksander Usyk, they don't agree.