So Fitzsimmons gets destroyed 2x by Jeffries yet he has a shot vs Louis and Marciano?

Well I used Hopkins because Corbett wouldn't punch, you could sub McClellan for Froch I suppose, McCllelan was dynamite and beat up Tucker in sparring. MMA gloves does make a difference too, but it takes away a punches punching longevity if you know what that means

But no a HW who stood up to that wouldn't rank that high, James Toney stood up to more punnishment from Jirov, Barkley, Ruiz, Peter, Holyfield, Nunn, Jones, McCallum and wasn't called the most durable of all time by any stretch

 

You want me to look at their ass Janitor? Either way the average 1890 contender hasn't trained for the amount of hours as a 2010 contender and no one in the 1890s was running multiple 2min 800m intervals like the Klits are supposed to. And as a runner you know what a big deal that is I'm sure, if they aren't bullshitting like most their 1890s counterparts

 

The Klitschkos are superior athletes in their own right, but if you went back to that period and showed them a picture of Chris Areola or Ruslan Chagaev stripped to the waist and told them that this was a top 10 heavyweight in 2011, they would probably laugh at you.

The training regimes of fighters like Fitzsimmons, Jeffries and Maher are documented by multiple contemporary newspapers. The fact that they did it in an era when sports science and track records were not at their curent level makes it more impresive still.

It is a testament to the dedication and profesionalism of these fighters that they did this with the cottage industry technology of the day.

 

Do you have an outline of the Klitchskos training methods?

Also, i wouldnt mind looking at one of Arreolas or some of the other current top 10 fighters also, just for comparisons.

 

Serious question... How deep do think the professional types of that day went? I mean, the 20 heavies today are full-time fighters with no second job, or so I imagine (How deep into that list do we need to go to find part-timers?). How many full time heavyweight fighters were there in the 1890's? Even Fitz and Corbett took to the stage to supplement their incomes and certainly could not have been training hard during those long theatrical trips. Any insight?

 

Another way to look at it would be to ask "what work other than boxing was available to many of these fighters?". It was absolutely a full time occupation for many of these guys.

The only fighters that took to the stage, were famous ones who could pack out a theatre based on their name. It was prety much a liscence to print money if you had a reputation.

How hard were they training during these trips?

Prety darn hard somtimes.

Critics of John L Sullivan often bring up his vaudavile tours as an argument against him, implying a farcical element to his title reign. If you look at the number of rounds per day he spared, and the weekly schedule he was working to it is incredible. I don't think that a lot of top fighters today could have done it!

 

I am not thoroughly convinced there were many full-time professional fighters in the later part of the 19th century, that is guys who did not have jobs on the side. Were purses high enough in the local smokers for the middle of the road fighter to pay rent and get his three squares? There certainly weren't the individuals or groups that funded and supported young prospects in hopes of recouping their investment later in his career. Some census research would be very interesting... to see how many men claimed their profession as pugilist.

 

Don't forget Solis.

I must say that I can't get my head around how untrained these guys look. I mean, busting your knee in a title fight because you're overweight...

 

I have never seen anybody bust their knee like that in a marathon, where they would actualy have a good excuse!

 

It's pretty telling that Johnson admitted himself to be an absolute novice when facing Choynski as a pro. He knew he would lose, he said, but was ready to get KO'd to pick up some of the man's science. When they both were jailed after their illegal bout Choynski taught him further tricks in prison...

That's a very hard way to learn and it's quite amazing that Johnson even picked up the skills he did after all have with such a start.

But had he started when a young boy, with a proper amateur background, he'd obviously been better off, just as PP suggests.

 

Are you both lifting weights and running, Janitor?

 

Yes.

You have to have a hobby!

 

Obviously. You find it hard to combine? You box as well?

 

I dont think i believe that Johnson did learn much from Choynski in that jail cell. I think it is just a myth. I posted an article written by Choynski a while ago, where Choynski stated that when they were taken to the jail cell, he felt bad, because they were separated into different parts and he was taken to visit the governer and Johnson made to stay in the cells and not treated as well. (Well it said something like that anyway).

 

It was Johnson who said so. But you never know with these things.

Anyhow, it shows the rudimentary beginnings Johnson had as a boxer.