Some Questions for Carnera advocates

I know who William Duffy was. I've asked you for 10 examples out of the hundreds of fixed fights you say happened.

 

It's very likely that a number of those inferior and cruiser-size fighters who were seen to 'dive' against Carnera simply saw the size of him and were looking for an easy out, in the natural course of events. I doubt they were all "paid off" or had the "frighteners" put on them by gangsters. Some were.
But I've seen enough boxing to know what to expect when you throw a C-level sub-200-pound has-been on the downside in with a young and fit 260-pound man mountain.

It's cynical matchmaking whatever way we look at it.

 

Ray Arcel was hit over the head from behind with a lead pipe for not going along with the mob ,this prompted his retirement for the sport.

 

My post wasn't for the purpose of informing you. I was just adding some details for general discussion.

 

Yes. Something like that.
Thanks for adding that.

I think it's quite firmly established that Arcel was not opposed to "the mob" on any moral principle though, seeing as he'd been working with notorious gangsters his whole career. He was lead-piped for going into direct competition with a particular cartel at a particular time.

 

I could do but i haven't seen you list the exact Primo Carnera fights you say were fixed, and with your supporting evidence. If I list 10 fighters you are bound to then want 10 detailed files on each one. Yet you haven't even made your case against Carnera really.
I'm not demanding anything of you, mind you.

Of course most of the "fixed fights" are only rumoured fixes. Or else they look suspicious.

 

Boxers generally are lousy actors. If a fight indeed was fixed for a fake KO.......anyone could tell.

 

Well we've all seen boxers take dives and no one says much about it.
Unless it's a championship or significant fight, no one really cares. The crowd boos a bit or not and that's it.

 

Well.....to clarify we have seen fighters decide for some reason to quit by going down without being hit or hit hard. (seldon vs Tyson as an example). Whether these were actually prearranged set ups decided in advance is the open question.

 

Exactly.
We see it often enough.
Tyson v Seldon was unusual and noteworthy for the fact that it was a world title event.
On undercards and small shows these things are more common, unfortunately. It seems to be the way many aspiring contenders are brought along, against a large number of poor opponents who go down at the first sign of danger. I say it's hundreds of fighters, but in history it's more than that in fact.

 

If Klitschko vs Norris happened in 1932, all sorts of interpretations and accusations could be made.

 

My problem was the term," hundreds of" that grossly overstates the case imo.
I haven't a case against Carnera, I just don't believe he was a great fighter or as good as Riddick Bowe,and apparently I'm far from alone in this view.

 

My take on the Seldon fight is that he froze.
Does anyone seriously feel any of Tyson's opponents had to be paid to take a dive?
That any of his winning results were pre-arranged?

 

I think that's right. He was clearly scared, but he was doing a decent job of following a good game plan until the first KD. You could see how stunned he was by the power, and he didn't want any more of it.

 

Well, your paragraph I was responding to encompassed a lot of stuff.

The general gist of what you were saying was, I think, (to paraphrase) : that Primo Carnera was built up on a series of mismatches (which included some fixes or 'dive artists'), often away from the main fight centre venues, his management carefully constructing a grossly padded and largely 'fraudulent' record to get his career off the ground and gain publicity with minimal risk and make easy money.

I'd say that practice has been done with hundreds of fighters over the years. Yes, hundreds.
Some of the fighters turned out to be legit when they stepped up and were thrown in with good fighters in honest fights, others did not.
Carnera I believe was at least semi-legit.

Primo Carnera was not as good a fighter as Bowe, nor was he a great fighter. I agree with that 100%.
I just don't see why he's been singled out so severely for having a padded record of set-ups and fishy KOs.