So was Frazier - didn't do him any good though. Come to think of it, Frazier was greater and a class higher than Liston as well.
Two great points. Both guys can crack and both guys generally bring it. However, Liston never proved he could beat anything better than a Patterson level fighter, whereas Foreman beat a genuine ATG who was not only far better than Patterson, but had demonstrated himself to be better than Liston as well. No real reason for Liston to be the favorite in this.
No he didn't. Ali was barely squeaking by guys like Doug Jones, Henry Cooper, and Billy Daniels heading into the Liston fight. How is that "the greatest heavyweight of all time"?? He wasn't even "greater" than the Ali that Foreman lost to. But also tougher, hitting harder, more experienced, and on a better run of wins (Frazier and Norton, as opposed to Cooper and Jones).
Beginning with the Cooper rematch, when he started moving side-to-side instead of backing straight up, and ducking away from the left hook instead of leaning straight back from it. He reached the peak of his form against Terrell and Williams.
But was one dimensional and had a come forward style that played right into Foreman's hands. I understand your point about Foreman beating Frazier being better than any Liston win but Patterson was a good champion too and not that far off. Nobody ever beat Liston or even came close trying to outpunch or outslug him bottom line. Foreman has some physical strength on Liston and that's literally it.
All I know is that Ali looked damn good against Liston and in every fight after before his exile :good Jones was a good learning fight and same goes for Cooper, Tyson had Tillis, Marciano had LaStarza, Bowe had Tubbs etc. Haven't seen the Billy Daniels fight so if you could fill me in on that one?
Whatever you think of a prime Joe Frazier, the fat blubbery past his prime 1973 joe frazier was not on the level of a Sonny Liston.
I'll admit my bias up front, which is that I grew up in the Foreman era, whereas Liston is a figure on blurry black and white films. I like both guys. But I think I'd favor Foreman for this reason: Liston wasn't a mover. He stood in front of you and tried to take you out...the perfect style for Foreman. Granted, Sonny was bigger than Frazier and had a really long reach, so he'd be no sitting duck, but I think standing in front of George would be a problem. I like Foreman by Ko.
I have no problem with people picking Liston , i myself said i think Liston has success but i slightly favor Foreman. What baffles me is how confidently people are picking Liston and choosing him to beat Foreman with ease.
I think Liston tears Foreman's head off and flattens him inside of five. Decisive KO. Liston was faster. Liston had a much better jab. Liston was much sharper and had a much better skill set. Liston was better conditioned and the more I rewatch his old tapes I am starting believe he was even the better puncher.
Based on what? He was still as highly regarded as he ever was heading into the Foreman fight, and afterward he gave Ali two far better fights than Liston ever did.
Frazier was always past prime when he fought Foreman, and is a much different stylistic matchup compared to Liston.. Even if he was prime, Frazier would never stand a chance against Foreman. No way was he a class higher then Liston. He probably ranks higher but I Liston would beat Frazier and Lyle imo quite easily
geroge foreman took ali to the 8th but then again ali was older when he fought foreman than he was when he was against liston but liston lost on the stool and then against a phantom punch. if this went down my gut tells me to go with foreman
Liston wins by KO in the ninth. Liston is just a slightly less powerful Foreman, who is much better technically with a better jab.
Liston is better fighter and he is also stronger than Foreman.Ask Chuck Wepner who hit harder between Foreman and Liston.