Sonny Liston v.s Rocky Marciano

No, actually, just glancing down this page, I see at least four people who've picked Marciano.

 

Like Marciano_Frazier wrote correctly, Marciano chose a tactic to wear these tricky fighters (Moore, Charles) down, not with one-punchs. And like we all know, this tactic was right. You can use always the other way too: Liston quit on his stool, was KO´ed by the bum Marshall, in one single round by the at the best mediocre hitting Ali, can you immagine what Marciano would do?

 

I could do the same thing.

Marciano was put on his butt and in serious trouble against cruiserweight Walcott. He was dropped by 175lb Moore. Imagine what Liston would do?:roll:

 

Bad match up for Marciano. Lucky for Marciano that he fought great light heavies and not a true great big punching Heavy like Liston (discounting an old past his best Louis). Look what happened when a great light heavy like Bob Foster fights a true great Heavy like Frazier and Ali. No contest. Same thing would've happened to Moore & Charles against Liston, Frazier or Ali.

 

Moore was 188 pounds for the Marciano fight. Walcott 195. Hardly 175 pounds as ClayII claims.

 

It's pretty obvious Rock is one of your favorites,and Sonny Liston is my all time favorite fighter period.Sonny had one on the most perfect physiques for a heavyweight fighter,while Rocky did a helluva job to makeup for his physical shortcomings{height and reach.Rocky was a better champion,unquestionably.Liston the fighter coming up the ranks was better than the champion he became.Yes Liston dishonored himself agaist the great one,and was cleanly kayoed at 38 to 40 years old.We did see what Rocky {couldn't} do at 40.I like the Rock,but one thing we probably have to agree on,Had Liston kept outa jail, got into the rankings earlier,and Rocky kept running his winning streak to 50 plus fights.Sonny Liston woulda been the one to end it,brutally.

 

Being knocked down for a count of 4 against a fighter with a hard one-punch and knocked out against a mediocre hitting fighter is a big difference... ( and about the ATG puncher Moore we don´t even need to start a discussion)

 

If Sonny takes Marciano on inside, Rocky's short arms, lower center of gravity, and superior handpeed (circa Rex Layne), will make things very difficult for Liston. Walcott and Moore were famously able to drop Marciano, but they both had speed Liston lacked, and were able to drop Rocky by retreating. An aged Louis was also able to stop Marciano in his tracks with an early right, but even then, Joe had some handspeed and shortness of punching that Liston never possessed.

Liston has to keep Marciano away with his jab. He's not going to win this with Jimmy Cannon's press clippings. Rocky's intangibles are through the roof. Considering his earlier devastating kayo loss to Johansson, one might expect Eddie Machen to be dispatched by Liston with similar speed, yet Machen proved that Marciano would not have been too small to hang with Liston. Bert Whitehurst also proved an adversary the size and caliber of Marciano could hang with Sonny.

When Sonny was faced with an opponent he couldn't intimidate, or inflict severe distress on, he looked lost. Against Marciano, he might dominate the first several rounds of the contest, but Rocky simply won't stop coming, won't give in, won't wear down. Marciano also secured that crucial 15 round distinction in the first Charles fight. This comes down to mental toughness, and Sonny would blink first against the extremely rough Rock.

At some point late in the championship rounds, Liston, probably far ahead on points but unable to retreat, would abruptly crumble under the unrelenting pressure from Marciano. I believe peak Liston vs peak Marciano would look much like Sonny's final defeat to Leotis Martin (another sub 200 pounder who was able to survive long enough against Liston for Sonny to wear down).

 

What we have is big bad Liston coming in and POW! Little Marciano falls over...he gets up with that non-descript, lethargic expression on his face that has NO SKILL written all over it (too bad Charlie Goldman was really just a hardcore flute player who happen to be good at wrapping hands) and POW! Another big one from the larger, better physique, MORE MODERN (Ali era) demon as he easily smites the confused caveman who thinks an uppercut is a type of fish.

While Rocky was using Pulley's, running up a few hills and eating his pasta, Liston was eating 7 steroided Holyfield’s a day for the SDMTR (Super Duper Modern Training Regime) that has been 100% Homicidal Hank proof tested to defeat any suicidal pre 1960 HW.

 

Sonny would have busted him up and stopped him in seven or eight ... this is the reason they have weight divisions ...

 

Rocky probably would've made Sonny quit after six rounds.

 

What, because Marciano weighed 15 pounds less than Liston? If Liston beats Marciano then it's because of stylistic advantage rather than size difference.

Marciano is no Patterson who gets knocked down by every punch that lands, plus Marciano has a tremendous amount of (first round) knockouts himself. He stopped more of his opponents than Liston, in fact.

 

Liston inside 6 or 7 rounds. Marciano would fare better than Dempsey.

 

I disagree. I do agree with you that styles make fights though. However, Floyd Patterson could have made a better account for himself against Liston, but was already beat in the dressing room well before the fight even started. For a boxer that Ali once called the most skillful he's ever faced, he just crumpled in fear of Sonny Liston.

Liston doesn't possess a huge height advantage over Marciano, Frazier or Tyson. I think Sonny's easiest fight would probably be Marciano because there's not much head movement to his crouch and he could be hit more frequently than Tyson or Frazier. One thing is for sure, Marciano could definitely hurt Liston with his right hand.

Tyson's advantage is hand and footspeed over Liston and his right hand punch is arguably just as strong. Sonny's jab probably hurts Tyson and a straight right would likely have Mike in big trouble early in the fight. Prime Mike Tyson though, would be on him fast from the early rounds and it wouldn't surprise me to see them both trading punches.

With regards to Frazier, I've heard it all before when analyzing a potential matchup with Sonny Liston. Sonny KO's Joe Frazier easy and early, just like George Foreman? I don't think Liston would have lasted 10 rounds with the prime Joe Frazier from 1967 to FOTC. Too much emphasis is placed on Foreman's destruction of a fat, lazy, poorly conditioned Frazier. Liston's jab is nowhere near as quick as Ali's, and Frazier employed much more head movement than Patterson. He made Ali miss jabs and right hands and he'd do the same to Liston. The only way Liston beats Frazier is if and when the ref allows Liston to push, shove and grab Frazier's shoulders like Mercante let Foreman get away with in 1973.

Sonny's game is strongly based on fear. Fear wouldn't work against Marciano, Frazier or Tyson.

 

I agree. great post.