Sonny Liston v.s Rocky Marciano

Silver · Jan 13, 2010

liston wins by late ko

turpinr · Jan 13, 2010

Silver said: ↑

liston wins by late ko
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yes,late in round 2

choklab · Jan 13, 2010

I just dont think liston paid his dues as a top10 ATG to be mentioned in the same breath as marciano. head to head we have to consider what they both did in life. rock did evrything posible then retired, having beat all time greats in some style. giving away weight 27 times and reach 49 times.
By comparison Liston was impresive against guys he had evry posible advantage over (only KOd 1 guy heavier then he was) and had bad shoulders or a brocken jaw when sombody stood up to him. but he fought 1 ATG and lost badly both times. he never beat 1 undefeted opponent or knocked out a single guy who was not already a KO victim. Great fighters win great fights, they get off the floor to win. They can give and take it and give some more.
However, Styles make fights. Liston with rocks head on his shoulders wins easy against the marciano wearing listons head. Listons huge arms and power at all ranges would be nightmarish for rocky. However there is proof rocky was never KOd so why here? lesser guys no bigger than rock lasted the distance with sonny.
it wouldnt be easy for rock but he had beter fitness, Hit as hard, could take it and was stronger than the many sub 200lb guys who troubled liston.
Rock by retirement stoppage.

janitor · Jan 13, 2010

turpinr said: ↑

yes,late in round 2
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Both fighters are getting sold short in this thread.

You are one of the worse examples of sombody selling Marciano short.

Bummy Davis · Jan 13, 2010

PetethePrince said: ↑

Well, as to no surprise I suppose. But in this matchup I predict a Rocky win. I predict a win, and I won't predict how he wins.

I think Rocky's low center of gravity and crouch keep him from getting hit with Liston's jab. I think he gets low and inside and wins the fight in the trenches in inside quarters. Liston got the 84 inch reach, and Marciano has the T-Rex Arms. Marciano finds his way inside I think at some point and his low center of gravity and short reach have him throwing bombs. Liston power becomes smother, and he can't get off as much or as often.

My main reasoning for picking Rocky is I think that Liston won't KO him. I don't think he can, actually. A TKO would be possible, but I don't see that happening. Cuts are a concern, but not as much as some might suggest. Marciano was never in any significant danger because of cuts from punches. That's right, only an elbow almost cost his title. There will be blood... I'm sure both men would be bleeding.

I give Liston the first few rounds. Liston starts of great, and Marciano isn't the best starter. Marciano does have an ever so slightly edge in hand-speed but that's completely nullified on the outside by the 15+ inch reach advantage by Liston. Liston's jab is grazing Rocky and finding its mark enough. Liston keeps Rocky at bay for the first 3 rounds. In fact, sweeping the opener. Tide starts turning though. I think from rounds 3-9, Rocky will up at least half of them.

Now, Liston's biggest and best arsenal on offensive is his jab, and overhand right. His uppercut, is also a thing of beauty. Surprisingly, I think Liston's head-movement bothers Rocky on the early stages. And that bothering happens on the rare times Rocky finds himself inside. I don't think much about Liston's overhand right in this one. Rocky's so low, shorter, that it isn't viable. It won't be in play for this one. Liston will rely heavily on the jab, and mix it up with a straight right hand and trying the uppercut.

Liston's best bet is to use that uppercut with Rocky coming in. Rocky is going to forward, but cautiously. He won't walk in like he did against Moore. Liston's severe power is known. Marciano's durability and chin at his peak was better than in his last fight, anyway. This even gets underrated now.

For Liston to win he needs to fight off the backfoot for as long as he can. He needs to bang and break Rocky down. Unfortunately, Liston fights great off the back foot. Better than most Heavyweight sluggers, which is why he is considered such a versatile force. If he busts up Rocky, I can see a late TKO from cuts or ref stoppage. This gameplan is to back up, jab, and try duping Marciano into exchanging for long-distances.

In my honest opinion, though. I think Liston stops retreating around the 3rd or 4th round. Liston doesn't fight off the back fight for extended periods. He met Williams face to face and eventually broke him down and pushed him backwards. I think his ego, manhood, and belief in his power/jab will have him start standing toe to toe with Rocky. Bad move. From this point, Rocky's body-work and punching power take a toll. Both mean are bloodied, but the final stages see Rocky cleaning up round 9-12 to even up the fight. The Championship rounds see a broken down mentally Liston. Liston quits on his stool. Marciano wins. Both fighters have fought a hellacious war. Both fighters aren't the same.

I rather have the 52-53 version of Marciano in this matchup than the latter version we see against Charles/Moore. I think the more calculated Marciano would have the better chance. This Marciano is smarter (Due to being more calculated), and more defensive, and harder to hit than it appears. This version is more apt to losing early rounds and being out-pointed. No fear, this won't happen against Liston. Only cutey fighters like Walcott will pose this problem. I feel that guys that stand and trade with Marciano are tailor made for him. The Charles, Walcott's are the ones that move away and try to use their boxing ability and craftiness that are troubling for Rocky. Guys that go mano o mano most likely lose. Obviously there are different circumstances for everything, though.

I think the low center, low target, awkwardness, and punching from all angles can beffudle Liston. Liston dealing with adversity, whether it be a mental fortitude issue or an issue on how to adapt. Liston just didn't like it when he didn't have you in the palm of his hands. At some point he is trouble, mentally, physically, strategically, and even stylistically. He won't have the answer. The power of Marciano would be a power that he has never been hit with before (At this point. A peak Liston hasn't sparred with Foreman). The tenacity...

Rocco Francis Marchegiano will find his mark against Liston. He may get dropped, he may even drop Liston. But Liston doesn't have the fortitude or will to win this kind of a scrap up. In my mind, at one point or another I think he just says... **** it and quits.

I can be honest though. In this matchup I'm picking with my mind and emotions. But not just my emotions.
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I too think R.M. prevails in a rugged go

turpinr · Jan 14, 2010

janitor said: ↑

Both fighters are getting sold short in this thread.

You are one of the worse examples of sombody selling Marciano short.
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i'm not too bothered.i don't hate or even dis-like rocky, i just think liston would easily beat him.foreman easier still.

kidargentine · Jan 15, 2010

Liston by Decision...

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Sonny Liston v.s Rocky Marciano

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Sonny Liston v.s Rocky Marciano

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