Sonny Liston vs. George Foreman

Its arguable if your going purely by resume up to 59. Sonny was just entering his prime as a fighter. Liston was better than Ingo. The eye test was decisive.

 

Yes we now know Sonny was beter overall but nobody would guess this in 1959.

It’s like saying Cassius Clay was the best fighter in the world before 1964.

 

Yes Bethea had been rated earlier, and Dejohn had been briefly rated but had exchanged his rank with Nino by the time he met Sonny.

Okay, Erskine, like Bethea, Williams, Dejohn and Cooper were rated at one time. But so was hein ten Hoff and Neuhaus for Ingo. Cavicchi was actually rated at the time when Ingo fought him, so was Machen. and Floyd was the World champion.

So Ingo had won more important fights by 1959. All knockouts. Two former contenders, two current contenders and the world champion.

By then Sonny had beat One current and two former by 1959.

 

I'm pretty sure Cavicchi had dropped out of the top ten by the time he fought Johansson.

 

Not at all, Liston would be heavily favored to beat everyone in the world in 1956 and 1958. He went through the period without losing and beat the best opponents.

Cooper was unranked when he fought Johannson so not a really impressive win.

 

How can you say this? In 1956 People “heavily favoured” Liston to beat anyone in the world? Which people?

In 1956, 13-1 Sonny fought just once and never fought again until 1958! Nobody knew who he was or the names of the guys he had fought so far. Neal welch? Emil Brtko? Johnny gray? Calvin Butler? Larry Watson?

Sonny was not yet a great fighter at that point. It is ludicrous to suggest at this point Liston was already a world beater.

 

Cavicchi remained unbeaten since his world rating of #9 early that same year. By the end of the year Ingo had replaced him.

 

Well, he's not listed in the ratings for August 1956, which is immediately before the Johansson fight.

https://cdnc.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/cdnc?a=d&d=SBS19560830.1.41

 

Quite a few would have guessed it i reckon.

 

What a surprise!!!

 

Stop telling porky pies. DeJohn was absolutely ranked when Liston beat him and Valdes was #2 at that time. You've already been caught out fibbing about Cavicchi to favor Ingo and now DeJohn to detract from Liston. You are just making it up as you go.

 

Come On Man? Your messing with us now. Ingo wasn't that highly regarded.
By 59 it was apparent Liston had knockout power in both hands. That gave him a decided edge over Johansson. He also had an uncommon left jab that was his calling card.
I know a little about Ingo. Correct me if I'm wrong. Great right hand, not much else?

 

Yes great right hand but he was the man to beat at that time. 1958 edddie Machen was unbeaten #1 contender and Ingo sparked him out in one round. then he fights Floyd who by then had never been knocked out and Ingo just wiped the floor with him, knocking him down so many times. It was spectacular stuff. Ingo must have been regarded as a sensation.

People might have been excited about Sonny by then as a potential opponent to Ingo, but sonny was just coming through at that time. Ingo was the man to beat that year wasn’t he?

 

rankings are interchangeable month by month based on results. Typically a fighter retained his yearly ranking whilst he was unbeaten but this ranking would be interchangeable on a monthly basis. It’s neither here no there whilst awaiting results. The ranking will register once that fighter is defeated. At this time fighters fought more often and contenders fought each other. At 43-3 Franco was the current European champion and he legitimately registered in the top ten that year winning the title. He remained unbeaten until meeting Ingo.

After beating Franco for the title, ingo immediately replaced his position in the ratings even though on the months between Cavicchi winning the title this spot could be given to another contender. The Euro title was a big deal. And Cavicchi was a legitimate world regarded fighter that year. He was in the mix.

 

If Ingo fought Sonny in 1959, who would your money be on?