Sonny Liston vs Jack Dempsey? Both in their prime

Ermmmmm.

No.

Of course you can never be sure when matching fighters of this calibre, but within that, this is about as close to a certain pick as you can get.

 

Ok, so you obviously agree Patterson would VERY likely demolish Dempsey due to styles.

 

Dempsey is a huge question mark to me but Floyd lacked the chin and durability in my book.

 

The crude, uneducated and easy to figure out Firpo, for all intents and purposes, beat Dempsey. A well-schooled, multi-faceted Patterson probably wouldn't break a sweat finishing Jack.

 

Dempsey-Patterson is no given, Patterson underrated off his loss of 2 H2H greats who were stylistic nightmares, let's compare Patterson and Dempsey:

Let's compare:

Competition: Patterson's is much better, even discounting his losses to Ali/Liston, so to an extent more proven
Handspeed: Patterson
Power: Dempsey slight edge, Patterson would be the best puncher he faced though
Defence: Patterson, not close, better punch slipper and a high guard
Chin: Dempsey, although he never faced punchers on the level of Liston and Johansson and has the KO loss to Flynn himself
Compact punching: Patterson
Combinations: Patterson
Reach: Dempsey 77inches, Patterson 71 inches (Liston is incidently 84 inches)
Footwork: Patterson slight edge
Jab: Patterson and this is a big advantage Dempsey has problems against jabbers
Left Hook: Even, both very powerful, Patterson's shorter and quicker
Right Hand: Probably Patterson
Strength/Size: Dempsey a bit of an edge, both are ex-LHWs
Fighting Hurt: Dempsey
Bodypunching: both are good

I mean it really is a toss up, Patterson should outbox Dempsey and beat him to the punch, he's the outright better boxer. Dempsey is probably the better brawler though but Patterson's punches may get their first in a brawl.

For the record Quarry rated himself over Dempsey if memory serves me correct. Frazier thought boxing had evolved since those years and boxers should be judged in their own times only

 

Patterson was a fine champion, with some verry under rated features to his resume. However, if you think that he beats Dempsey then you have badly lost touch with reality.

It is inherant to Pattersons style and lack of durability, that he almost certainly looses to the all time great finishers. If you put him in with Dempsey, or Louis, or Tyson, then they will likley do prety much what Liston did to him. Whatever edge Patterson might have in speed, it is going to come down to the fact that Dempsey can take Pattersons punches and Patterson can't take Dempseys. What do you think is going to happen when they trade with eachother?

Of course you can never say never, but this is as close to saying never as you can get.

 

I don't think Tunney is as good as Patterson, Miske certainly is a class below and certain papers had him beating Dempsey before he became sick.

Dempsey has never beat anyone in the class of Patterson and fought a much lower class of opposition. He also couldn't KO the

You talk about Patterson's chin, but only the much bigger Liston had him down and out who had much heavier hands than the ex-LHW Dempsey. Comparitively Dempsey was out from 1 punch against Flynn so maybe Dempsey is the chinier fighter?

Johansson put Patterson down 7 times and he got up each time he got up. The Ali stoppages were TKOs and not KOs. Archie Moore, Quarry, Cooper, Ellis, Chuvalo, Machen, Tommy Jackson couldn't get the better of him. Certainly not the marking of a weak chin

Could Dempsey KO Patterson, yes? Could Patterson also KO Dempsey? Certainly

 

Really? How many rounds and how severe a beating?

As for the thread. Lets give Dempsey the benefit of the champion he was and how his punching power was credited in his career. He could hurt Liston and probably drop him. Floyd could hurt Liston too but he was scared, left his power in the gym or dressing room and didn't think he could win. Dempsey would have no fears of Liston and would size him up early from his crouch like the Willard fight. I don't think he tries to take Liston out early and maybe eats a fair share of jabs and rights. Liston doesn't put him away early and builds a bit of a lead after the early rounds. If Jack is able to get to Sonny's body, he could win this fight and stop him in the middle to late rounds. He has the power to do it. Liston's advantate would be his reach and to keep the jab in his face. The right hand would follow and could put Dempsey down. What Liston doesn't have is the skill to set up a trap like Archie Moore. Dempsey could do this and I see him setting up Liston with a better punch than Ali's phantom and dropping him late. If Liston doesn't quit he could get up and maybe finish the fight to a decision win.

Dempsey KO 8 to 10

 

Floyd was floored nearly 20 times ,this denotes two things, a suspect chin ,and a porous defence.
Floyd was imo, the fastest of the heavyweights ,but Dempsey was quick handed too.
I think Dempsey's footwork is better than Floyd's.

Jack hits appreciably harder, imo.

Dempsey ruins Patterson ,and early , he may momentarily get caught coming in ,but once he zeroes his guns on Floyd it would be game over. Three rounds at most.