Highly agree. I've learnt a lot about Dempsey in the last week after never previously having questioned his aura. The guy really is overrated and there's plenty of pen on paper to back it up. At least i know when i finalise my top 10 heavies i can now go from Dempsey forward. Previously i considered myself a bit too lean on his career to judge him fairly, but now i know he simply won't make the grade. The fight? This is the perfect match for Sonny. Liston KO2
This would have been a match worth seeing. Both fighters were intimidating to say the least. Liston had a tremendous jab and power in his punches. He was however slow footed and lumbered around the ring. Dempsey had good speed both hand and foot along with great punching power.I think Dempsey gets the better of it if these two had ever tangled. I think Liston tended to lose heart when the going got rough and it would be just that against Jack Dempsey.
I agree with you that Liston takes this one, but ranking him #2 is getting carried away. Of course that is your opinion.
I couldn't disagree more with you here. Liston looks a little rough in the ring because he shuffles with a one foot lead, but he is getting around the ring, no question. He is no expert at cutting down his man with footspeed, but that is irrelevant here, because he doesn't have hunting to do in the long term. Dempsey will come. Also, when Liston commits, when he thinks he has a half step on his man, he is very quick, if again he looks a little rough (also a good and brave counter puncher could hurt him here, but again, not relevant in this match). Liston finished a fight with a broken jaw. They quit these days with torn rotator cuffs. It also seems that Liston was used by his father as some sort of mule. I think your surmise of Liston's heart is based entirely upon his Ali showings, and as such, are naive.
Liston head to head (KO 1 or KO2), but I think Dempsey has the better legacy as he was a long reigning champ who helped define an entire era. I know he wasn't an active champ but Dempsey was part of his era like Ali was part of his and thats a BIG legacy.
Thing is is Dempsey avoided so many deserving challengers while Ali took them on. Personally i wouldn't put them in the same bracket. Ali beat some real monsters and doesn't have gaps on his resume.
I don't put them in the same bracket as boxers, but I was trying to say that Dempsey was a major part of the 20s as Ali was a major part of the late 60's and early 70's, they both transended boxing and were one of the icons of their time. I can only think of Dempsey, Ali, Tyson and maybe Louis who have that quality. Thats a great legacy IMHO.
I take dempsey in this one. I dont see why everyone discusses only resume in this fight, thats supposed to go second compared to the styles and skills in a h2h matchup. Liston I think is a bit overrated h2h. His jab was strong as hell, but personally I think it was too slow to keep dempsey off him this combine whith his lack of movement mean s dempsey is definitely getting to him. I see dempsey's head movement and superior handspeed winning him a fight that occurrs mainly at mid-range.
Liston was slow against Ali, but not necessarily in his prime. Sonny peaked in the years prior to fighting Clay. From 1959-1962, Liston was a lightening force to be reconned with. By the time he fought Clay in 1964, he fighting on average maybe once per year, and was reported as 32 years old, but may have been 35+. Dempsey, if you remember was basically done by age 32.
Both guys could hit a ton. The fight would depend on how Dempsey fought. Liston was like a locomotive. If you were in his tracks, he was going to knock you off. If Dempsey fought toe to toe with Liston, I'd favor Liston. But Liston himself lacked speed, and Dempsey was blazing fast. If Dempsey fought smart, he could win via TKO, or by making Liston quit or foul out. Liston was a bully type who did not like it when guys fought back, and had some issues with cuts.
This is by far the best post on this thread! I don't like the stance Dempsey took after winning the championship re drawing the color line. But back in the twenties, he caught everyone's imagination. He truly helped establish this sport and was one of the immortals of boxing. It's true other heavyweights may beat him in head to head match-ups. So what? that's only your or my opinion..One of the most popular champs ever...Denegrading an all-timer? Come on people.
