Just found this pic, i think most people will like it. http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/60/pivh.jpg Liston looks frigging huge!
Liston was a genuine bad ass mofo. Even Tyson once said, the one guy hed be scared of would be Sonny Liston. I remember an interview from Foreman a couple of years back where said something like 'they all ran, all of them, when they fought me, Frazier thought he was tough but he ended up running, Ali just lay on the ropes, but the one man who pushed me back, was Sonny Liston'
Looking at that photo its hard to believe that Liston only weighed 212-15lbs in shape during his career. I`d easily believe he weight 230.
Yeah ETM, you know some guys just look bigger than there weight & I cannot account for it. Young Foreman could have been a Saddler weigh drain, he fought in the early 230's in some of his late 1st career bouts. Sonny eevn at 6' 1" LOOKED 230 or so. Guys who are less than they look may have smaller than usual bones, less body fat, &/or less muscle, like relatively small legs, but Liston met none of these conditions. He looked a good 20 lbs. heavier, were some of his bones hollow like a birds? Also Shavers looked bigger than ~ 210, even at 6'. Also Sonny Liston had maybe the largest "ape factor" ever recorded, + 11". Meaning the arm span compared to height. Rare is 10", Rahman is listed as 10", in tons of searches even amongst Basketball players the longest I could find was an alleged + 11" for Manute Bol, the 7' 7" giant. Though if true, Liston is still a higher % differential between height & reach, approaching 15%. For comparison he had the same 84" reach as Rahman & 6' 5" Lennox Lewis, still quite long armed at +7". To get this huge hands help, as do a wide set torso (clavicles/chest spread, muscle does not effect thiis, it is bone structure). I wonder if part of Rahman's success, like his KO of Lewis from range, was that guys did not expect such reach from a 6' 2" man.
Not that it really makes much difference, but Liston was actually 6'0" even, not 6'1". And Foreman looks like an angry disco thug in that pic!
I have never seen Liston listed as 6', rarely a 1/2" on either side. But almost always 6' 1". If hewas just 6'-assuming his reach was accurate-he would have an even longer 12" ape factor. Please show me any source tat lists or describes him as just 6' even.
Liston was 6'1. That is confirmed. Re: what you mentioned earlier about appearing bigger than his listed weight, I spoke with Davey Pearl and others who knew Sonny and they all say that Sonny sweated what seemed like twice as much as the average man. Pearl remembered him sweating buckets every time they ran, rain or shine. So it was easy for him to get down to a fairly light weight. If you look at the tale of the tape between Sonny and a prime Foreman, it is actually Liston who is the larger man from the standpoint of musculature. Bigger (and longer) arms, thighs, chest, etc.
liston had the typical slim legs of a boxer unlike ali and frazier.if sonny's legs had been in proportion to his torso he'd have weighed in at 225lb in his prime. I still think sonny skipping to night train is beautiful.
The Frazier who stepped in with Ali in FOTC would win . Was at his career best that night. Sure there would be some rocky moments but he would win . Any other version of Frazier after this fight Sonny would be right in it except the Frazier who turned up in Manilla - dont know if Joe could hate Sonny enough though. Genuine hate - the most powerful weapon a fighter has.