Sonny Liston vs Rocky Marciano

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by young_wolverine, May 6, 2020.


Sonny Liston vs Rocky Marciano

  1. Marciano KO

    20 vote(s)
    16.8%
  2. Marciano Points

    4 vote(s)
    3.4%
  3. Liston KO

    92 vote(s)
    77.3%
  4. Liston Points

    3 vote(s)
    2.5%
  5. Draw

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,075
    27,915
    Jun 2, 2006
    I am well aware that Turner, dismisses pad work as a waste of time,that he stated Ward and Mayweather would be ordinary back in his time,and that Cut Men are a con. That Marciano would beat both Klits on the same night. That tells me all I need to know about Toothpick Turner!
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2023
    Glass City Cobra likes this.
  2. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    27,671
    7,630
    Dec 31, 2009
    The existence of the expression “style advantage”. Which can become misleading and came from the internet. We have had this conversation before. If I remember rightly we agreed upon a less misleading expression.
     
  3. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    27,671
    7,630
    Dec 31, 2009
    And Tommy Gallagher?
     
  4. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,075
    27,915
    Jun 2, 2006
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    111,970
    45,902
    Mar 21, 2007
    No, we didn't agree it was a misleading expression anywhere but in your fever dreams.

    You think the existence of the phrase "style advantage" is proof that "young historians" believe "one type [of style] never beats another type"?

    That is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read on this forum.
     
  6. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    27,671
    7,630
    Dec 31, 2009
    I loathe the “style advantage” expression. And the existence of it because it can encourage misinterpretations of the rock paper scissors variety.

    for instance it implies only a counterpuncher can counterpunch. etc etc. It is very unhelpful. It was not in use when Ray Arcel was training fighters.

    it used to be the case that a come forward guy used “brawling tactics”. Or was the brawler. Fighter vs boxer. But the individual situation and the particular devised game plan for an assignment can dictate this fight by fight. So it’s useless to categorise round holes for square pegs especially at elite level.
     
    Jackomano likes this.
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    111,970
    45,902
    Mar 21, 2007
    That's fine, loathe away. You can loathe anything you like. I think you fundamentally have misunderstood what is meant by it, and there's no better illustration of that than this exchange. But loath any expression you want.

    But making up some weird background where "young historians" think that one style can never beat another style because the phrase exists is abject nonsense. It is apparent you completely made this up.

    It's so telling. I completely ignored you for two years, and the first post I read of yours in god knows how long contains made-up gibberish because of your personal feelings on a very minor issue. I'm not absolutely convinced that's a coincidence.
     
  8. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    27,671
    7,630
    Dec 31, 2009
    “Style advantage” can imply a style being an advantage. It’s not made up gibberish to say so when the expression exists.
     
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    111,970
    45,902
    Mar 21, 2007
    This is also completely wrong.

    It doesn't imply it, it flat out states it. What is not implied is that by its existence is that "young historians....think that one [style] has no chance against another [style]" which is what you wrote.

    Absolute gibberish.
     
    Greg Price99 and swagdelfadeel like this.
  10. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    27,671
    7,630
    Dec 31, 2009
    so it flat out states that style is an advantage? The style itself rather than all the many other telling factors like tactics, experience, strength, accuracy, career timing?

    surly the success of any style depends on not the style itself winning the fight but in working out the other guys next move.


    do you think that a byproduct of the flat out statement “style advantage” can or can’t lead to thinking one style has no chance against another style?

    I think this type of blanket expression cannot go unchallenged.
     
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    111,970
    45,902
    Mar 21, 2007
    :lol: it's the incredulous ness I love.

    Yes, "style advantage" means style advantage. The words "Style is an advantage" have almost no meaning though, in relation to boxing.

    Why would "style advantgae" mean "strength advantage"? Please try and think before you type, I don't think you meant to say any of this.

    Success of a style depends on many, many, many more things than these two things. A style advantage can be a tiny advantage or a big advantage. Again, I don't think you really understand what it means, despite having it explained to you in detail.

    The words "style advantage" assume some other meaning when you read them, assuming you are not trolling.

    It's not a "blanket expression". You just work very hard to make it so. You have done for a decade now, it's absolutely mad.
     
  12. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    27,671
    7,630
    Dec 31, 2009
    Show evidence of this.
     
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    111,970
    45,902
    Mar 21, 2007
    No.

    Instead, try extremely hard to hold on to this:

    You said that the phrase "Style Advantage" proved that a group called "Young Historians" believed that style was the final deciding factor in determining winners - and that certain styles were undefeatable by certain other styles. You typed that.

    https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/sonny-liston-vs-rocky-marciano.648636/page-45#post-22344367

    Now try to understand how lunatic that makes you look to this forum. Really try to remember that you believed it, or pretended to believe it, and instead of explaining yourself or admitted you were getting carried away, you've tried to move the goalposts, change the debate, and made additional bizarre claims that make no sense.

    Have a think about it.

    Or explain it. If i've been hard on you, explain who "young historians" are. Link to an article or news story or that shows a young historian claiming "tyle terms to describe boxers and beliefs arose that one type never beats another type. "

    Just one. Anywhere. Ever.
     
    swagdelfadeel and Greg Price99 like this.
  14. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King

    10,197
    17,453
    Jan 6, 2017
    It is not my fault if you can't read

    Wtf is the point in mentioning a fight where the larger man lacks aggression? Liston was one of the most aggressive fighters of all time. I made myself very clear and even compared the two fighters to a pitbull and a bear.
     
    swagdelfadeel and mcvey like this.
  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,075
    27,915
    Jun 2, 2006
    Valdes beat 9 top ten ranked contenders.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2023