Nothing close about the first Summerlin fight. 1954-06-29 : Sonny Liston 206 lbs beat Johnny Summerlin 193 lbs by UD in round 8 of 8 Location: Motor City Arena, Detroit, Michigan, USA "John Summerlin of Detroit, Michigan's ranking heavyweight, was no match for Charles Liston, former International Golden Gloves heavyweight champion from St. Louis. Liston pounded out a unanimous decision in the eight round televised main event at Motor City Arena Tuesday night. The St. Louis slugger who weighed 206 pounds carried the fight through most of the early rounds and finished with added glory by staggering Summerlin, 193, into a corner during an explosive final round." - United Press Champ Rocky Marciano Hurricane) Jackson John Holman Willie Pastrano Nino Valdes Johnny Summerlin Bob Satterfield Young Jack Johnson Ezzard Charles Summerlin had 21 fights to Liston's 6.
Liston was beaten by two men who were both under 200 lbs. One of them knocked him out while the other broke his jaw and took a decision. It should be noted of course that one of them fought sonny when he had 7 professional fights and the other met Liston when he was at the tail end of his career. But at no point in Vitali Klit's career was he ever truly conquered by a much smaller man, despite fighting past 40 years of age and after taking a four year leave of absence from the ring.. His only two defeats were the result of a badly cut eye and a torn rotater cuff in fights that he was winning, against men who were well over 200 lbs and world class level. The largest heavyweight Sonny ever beat was around 225 lbs and admittedly a big man... But also one who had no power, limited skill, average chin and was more or less gatekeeper status...What does all this mean? who knows? maybe nothing. But regardless of Liston's reputation as being an unbeatable monster, he sure showed plenty of vulnerability... I often question the odds he's given in a lot of head to head fantasy fights. He seems to be one of these champions who came around at the right time when the division's participants were tailor made for him, meaning that he was never forced to adapt, over come adversity, or endure an opponent who had any significant sort of advantage over him the way that Muhammad Ali, Joe Louis and Evander Holyfield had to do..
Seven fight novice Liston was beaten by 25 fight Marshall in a freak fight where his jaw was broken, he lost a split decision. Liston subsequently beat Marshall twice,in the 2nd fight he floored him 4 times , in the 3rd fight Marshall did not win a round. An ancient Liston was kod by good hitter Martin when he ran out of gas. * Martin kod Banks who subsequently died Vulnerability? Muhammad Ali was legitimately floored only 3 times by: Sonny Banks 196lbs* Henry Cooper 185lbs Joe Frazier 205lbs Rocky Marciano was floored twice by: Joe Walcott 196lbs 38 years old Archie Moore 188lbs [ 39/41 take your pick]. Both Ali and Marciano are reckoned to have had excellent chins. Liston beat many guys taller than himself and by stoppage. Valdes Dejohn Lincoln Clark Wepner McMurray Williams Wonder if Vitali quits if his jaw is broken ?:think Who , out of all these big slow tubs that Vitali beat does Liston lose to? What would Arreola ,Charr, Solis ,Peter, Williams ,Sanders have weighed had they been in shape?
. Yes I acknowledged that he had only 7 fights in my post and also pointed out that nothing like this ever happened to Klitscko when facing a man of that size or status. Again I mentioned that Liston was at the end of his career and also pointed out that Vitali was never KO'd by anyone let alone a much smaller man, despite fighting past 40 and having his career divided by a four year layoff. Did he lose these fights? An all time great heavyweight in the peak of his prime over 200 lbs and fighting Muhammad who had fought all but twice in a four year period.. Not someone I'd put in the Marshall or Martin category A reigning heavyweight champion and a p4p ATG, both known for having power and both were beaten.. And rightfully so.. Because they both DID.. I'll also ad Gerard Zech to that list, but Find me one of them who has 7 inches in height and 30 lbs in weight on Liston along with a solid chin, decent power, good boxing ability and known for showing up in great shape.. You may find a few of them with SOME of those attributes but none with ALL of them, and certainly none with that wide of a margin in size. Depends on when in the fight it happens and weather or not the opponent can turn the trick... Liston had his jaw broken by a lightheavyweight journeyman. He also quit after only 6 rounds with a cut. Klit fought through almost an entire fight with a torn rotator cuff and was winning before the pain got the better of him. A better way to phrase that would be to ask me which one of those I'd personaly favor to beat Liston and the answer is none of them. But if you were to ask me which one of Liston's opponents I'd pick to beat Vitali ( including at least two who sonny lost to ) I'd only say Ali, which does nothing for our argument because just about any heavyweight we can think of would lose to a prime Ali.
You're the one fixated on size I just pointed out both Marciano and Ali were floored by as you put it," men under 200lbs".
I'm not fixated on size at all.. But when we take a man who not only has a "significant" advantage in both height and weight along with a well rounded box of tools and place him in with a guy who had mixed results with smaller men and ones who weren't very good at that, favoring the former over the latter isn't unreasonable.
Correct. Those who say Ali or Marciano was floored by smaller men need to understand they were never beaten or knocked out by them. I also find Liston's overall resume to be rather thin in terms of rounds fought vs. power punchers. Williams busted Liston up quickly, but Cleveland had the chin of a NFL place kicker, and was taken out. Letois Martin knocked Liston out cold for a minute. Ali had a solid right hand, and he shook Sonny up as well. I highly doubt Liston could take a sustained attack from V. Klitschko. He would need to get the job done early. In many cases if Liston didn't get an early KO, his man lasted many rounds. Whitehurst, Marshall, and Machen come to mind. The poll is tied 18-18
And that's fair. Pick who you want to pick.. Not like either of us are ever going to lose money on it.
Liston is going to shid the bed in this one, I stand by my prediction, starting from the initial press conference to the actual stare down he is going to look for a way out.
