Sonny Liston vs. Vitali Klitschko

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Hookie, Oct 13, 2015.


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  1. Pugilist_Spec

    Pugilist_Spec Hands Of Stone Full Member

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    That still does not change the fact that Sanders was a never-was and 38 years old.

    And his list of names is pretty solid. Only Haye is missing, and he didn't fight him either.
     
    Pugilist_Spec, Oct 18, 2015
    Pugilist_Spec, Oct 18, 2015
    #151
  2. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Vitali had to beat Sanders though, they were the best two Heavyweights after Lewis retired. The way Sanders spanked Wlad and then called out Vitali anything else would have been a duck.
     
    lufcrazy, Oct 18, 2015
    lufcrazy, Oct 18, 2015
    #152
  3. Pugilist_Spec

    Pugilist_Spec Hands Of Stone Full Member

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    I'm not saying Vitali shouldn't have fought him. He should have. He should have also crushed him, considering the pedestal he is put on nowadays.

    Sanders was mediocre in his prime, one can only imagine how bad he was at the age of 38 with a beer gut. But he gave Vitali all he could handle in the 2 rounds he had stamina for, and then it took ages for Vitali to get rid of him, even though he was knocked out by one punch from Nate Tubbs!

    Both the Klitschkos are way too sugar-coated for my taste. ATGs sure but it's crystal clear that they're nothing exceptional among the bunch.
     
    Pugilist_Spec, Oct 18, 2015
    Pugilist_Spec, Oct 18, 2015
    #153
  4. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    None of this necessarily makes him a harder puncher.

    Look, I am as sceptical of Williams as the next man, but I am sold on his power.

    The testimony of opponents and sparring partners, leaves little doubt that he was in the top echelon of punchers.
     
    janitor, Oct 18, 2015
    janitor, Oct 18, 2015
    #154
  5. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Vitali crushes no one. His power is not comparable to huge punchers throughout history. His one shot power was almost certainly less than that of Haye.

    Vitali wins by being fitter than his opponents. This fight was no different.

    We don't need to imagine what Sanders was like at 38, we all got to see him fight. He started well and didn't have the fitness to maintain it.
     
    lufcrazy, Oct 18, 2015
    lufcrazy, Oct 18, 2015
    #155
  6. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

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    sanders who easily instantly killed prime wlad and almost unified the k bro titles would never get a title shot with liston. liston would be laughed at!
     
    HerolGee, Oct 18, 2015
    HerolGee, Oct 18, 2015
    #156
  7. brb

    brb Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Sanders is better than Marshall & Martin.
     
    brb, Oct 18, 2015
    brb, Oct 18, 2015
    #157
    ascended likes this.
  8. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    The crucial difference is that Sanders is arguably Vitally Klitschko’s best win, while Marshal and Martin are fighters who beat Liston well outside his prime, who his best opponents would have dominated.
     
    janitor, Oct 18, 2015
    janitor, Oct 18, 2015
    #158
  9. brb

    brb Boxing Addict Full Member

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    At the very, very least, Vitali hits as hard as CW.

    I have 4 other points I'm waiting for you to dispute...

    Put those 24k + posts to work.
     
    brb, Oct 18, 2015
    brb, Oct 18, 2015
    #159
  10. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    I don`t think Liston would score a clean knockout but I believe his jab and heavy hands would bust Vitali up enough to get a later stoppage. I think it would be a good fight and Sonny would take some shots himself but he was a sharper puncher and a better boxer than Vitali and much better than people give him credit for.
     
    ETM, Oct 18, 2015
    ETM, Oct 18, 2015
    #160
  11. kingfisher3

    kingfisher3 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    hard fight to pick imo.

    i'll take vitali by like 53/47.
     
    kingfisher3, Oct 19, 2015
    kingfisher3, Oct 19, 2015
    #161
  12. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Marshall who fought around 180 pounds beat Liston when Liston was 24 years old. Liston could not even finish Marshal in their 3rd and final match.

    The Martin KO over Liston and Williams busting Liston up early makes me wonder if Sonny could win a fight with a skilled puncher.
     
    Mendoza, Oct 19, 2015
    Mendoza, Oct 19, 2015
    #162
  13. Hookie

    Hookie Affeldt... Referee, Judge, and Timekeeper Full Member

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    Marty Marshall? He weighed 180 Lbs., outboxed Liston and broke his jaw. Liston went 2-1 (1) vs. Marshall.

    Leotis Martin? Liston actually ended his career (detached retina) but not before Martin KTFO of Liston.

    One fight was pre-prime, one post-prime.

    With that said, I will ask you this... Do you really think that Vitali Klitschko did not improve after fighting Lennox Lewis?

    Klitschko did very well vs. Lewis. Sure, Lewis may not have been at his very best but he was still very good. It's not like he had been on losing streak or just came back from retirement. The fight was made on short notice but Lewis had been training for Kirk Johnson. This was certainly a good learning experience for Klitschko and I think he was better after this fight.

    After the Lewis fight Vitali Klitschko went 13-0 (10) overall and 12-0 (9) in HW World title fights. He beat-

    Kirk Johnson KO2- in a World title eliminator

    Corrie Sanders KO8- for the vacant WBC belt, Sanders had beat Wladimir Klitschko (KO2) for the WBO belt but vacated it to make this fight happen. This was a very important fight.

    Danny Williams KO8

    Sam Peter KO8- after a 4 year layoff Klitschko dominated Peter and then stopped him. Peter dropped Wladimir Klitschko 3 times and lost a close decision to him.

    Juan Carlos Gomez KO9

    Chris Arreola KO10

    Kevin Johnson W12

    Albert Sosnowski KO10

    Shannon Briggs W12

    Odlanier Solis KO1

    Tomasz Adamek KO10

    Dereck Chisora W12

    Manuel Charr KO4

    I admit, some of these names don't really stand out but one thing is for sure... V. Klitschko dominated all of them.


    Liston beat Patterson KO1 x2, Machen W12, Folley KO3, and Williams KO3 and KO2. Williams barely deserves to be mentioned with the others in my opinion. Williams stopped Terrell in their first fight but lost by close decision in their rematch. He fought Machen to a draw. He was stopped inside of 3 rounds by Satterfield (a hard hitting but chinny LHW), Liston x2, and Ali.

    Nino Valdes was washed up when Liston fought him. Whitehurst, Bethea, Daniels, Cab, Valdes, Besmanoff, King, and Westphal combined for so many losses at the time they fought Liston that I lost count. Who's left worth mentioning? DeJohn and Harris? These guys were not very good and they were pretty small compared to the men Klitschko fought. Liston was not outweighed in any of these fights except for one (Williams had 3 Lbs. over Liston in their rematch but Liston was 2 1/4 Lbs. heavier than Williams in their first fight)...and Liston was small compared to Klitschko. Anything could happen and Liston would not be easy, I just don't feel comfortable picking him over Vitali when he never beat a big talented Heavyweight. Williams wasn't shlt compared to Vitali. Williams was 6'3" with an 80" reach and 210 1/4 and 215 1/2 in his fights vs. Liston, Vitali destroyed guys that size and at that skill level... and so did Liston, but we are talking about a guy who is much more skilled, with a much better chin, and much taller and heavier than Williams.

    Machen? Machen was good but he was 6' and never fought over 200 Lbs. Machen and Folley were pretty much on par but Machen was more durable. Machen was stopped in the 1st round by Johansson though. He gave Liston a good fight but lost a clear decision. Liston lost a few points in the fight due to low blows.

    Patterson and Folley were also right around that 6' mark and at or under 200 Lbs.

    Before anyone brings up Chris Byrd... 6'2" and 210 3/4 - 214 Lbs. in HW world title fights. He had a very good chin and was able to beat some very big men, including V. Klitschko... but we all know that a pre-prime V. Klitschko was easily winning prior to the stoppage, LTKOby9.
     
    Hookie, Oct 19, 2015
    Hookie, Oct 19, 2015
    #163
  14. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Excellent post.
     
    Mendoza, Oct 19, 2015
    Mendoza, Oct 19, 2015
    #164
  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Marshall was down 7 times in the 6 rds their second fight lasted in the third fight though on the verge of being stopped several times he made it to the end by just fighting to survive.Marshall hardly"outboxed "Liston in their first fight, he won a split decision
    with Liston hampered with a broken jaw.

    Lewis had been training for Johnson and Vitali had been training for Ross Puritty on the same card.
     
    mcvey, Oct 19, 2015
    mcvey, Oct 19, 2015
    #165
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