Glad you never quoted and disputed what I actually wrote. Norris aint beating Duran. Glad you know that. And Leonard at his best would have smoked Norris. Not the version who was 34 years old and hadn't fought at the weight for 7 years. And I'm confident you know that as well. You just can't admit it to yourself and everyone on here. I have noticed over two threads on the same subject you ain't addressed my comparison on "shot and prime". If Leonard was in his prime against Norris, then what about Camacho the night he moved for 12 rounds against De La Hoya? Don't give me a smoke screen and make up a load of nonsense to cover up the fair truthful comparison. Camacho must have been in his prime. If not then you're being biased and showing double standards yet again.
Leonard was shot when he fought norris, Leonards prime was 1979-82.......not 1991(coming off a 2 year layoff) at age 34
Imagine if Duran had been in proper condition for the second fight. Leonard would be retired after his second straight loss.
I don't know why you would possibly think this looking at the Norris fight. What was it looking at the fight that makes you think it was the least bit competitive? Had the fight been competitive, and leonard ACTUALLY WAS shot, then I could understand your point but leonard proved he was ferfectly functional in his previous fight. Had leaonr actually been shot he never would have gone through with it. And don't believe SuzieQ saying he had been off two years. That's just the sugar ray leonard fan in him rising to the surface in frustration trying to bull**** me against all hope. This wasn't like the DeLa Hoya-Camacho fight at all, the one you tried to make comparisons with Sugar Ray Leonard. For one, Leonard was favored heavily to win while Oscar was heavily favored to beat Hector. Geez, how could you overlook something like that Robbi. It must make you feel :fire burning mad. It must feel like **** being on the losing end of an argument against me all the time. I wouldn't know and honestly I can't tell you that I know how you feel, because I don't. I've also wondered as a Sugar Ray leonard fan, which feels worse: seeing him beat senseless by Hector Camacho, a man you all despise and I worship, or seeing him completely dominated by Norris as a 3-1 favorite. The trajedy is you really don't have any excuse this time for the performance. You can't blame it on his weight. You can't blame it on a layoff. You certainly can't say Norris was favored can you? In fact, all the edges go to leonard including experience. I don't understand. Shouldn't leonard have found his edge in speed nothing more than a minor problem at most? Seriously Robbi, I think you should give up now before you end up looking like John Thomas and I wouldn't want to do that to you.
The bottom line I'm trying to make is that you said Leonard wasn't shot. Because he moved well for 12 rounds? Leonard wasn't shot and at no point did I say he was. You have said over and over that he was in his prime. It's others who said he was "shot" I just happened to say he was past his prime. Nothing to do with who was favourite. I'll try this again, see if you understand. You said Leonard was in his prime because he moved effectively for 12 rounds and also he wasn't shot for the same reason. What about Camacho against De La Hoya? Was he far from shot and in his prime? He probably had better legs against De La Hoya than Leonard did against Norris. De La Hoya beat a prime Camacho? Surely must be. You continually have said that fighters who show they have legs and can move for 12 rounds are still in their prime.
hey stupid, havent they taught you how to round numbers yet? You're suppossed to be in college and they haven't taught you anything yet you dumb jock! That's ONE year, not two. Stop being so deceptive. Robbie and I were just having this discussion and if you have the guts to step in you'll tell me how in the world Leonard was shot if he was at his natural weight and moving laterally right-left left-right for 12 rounds. I hope you're not going to serve me up another pile of manure like Robbi and begin by telling me Leonard lost because he hadn't fought at that weight for 7years because that would be truly pathetic. So now let's get this straight: Leonard was off 1 year, just came off an impressive performance (one of his most convincing) was an enormous favorite to win, had a massive edge in experience, had the press on his side as always, no weight issues, and got blown out just the same.
Actually yes. Holyfield-Tyson was a mild upset here in the states, nowhere near the earth shaker upset that Norris-Leonard was. Mike had few fights since the comeback including the McNeely fight and who else had Evander lost to other than the great Bowe? On the other hand, Norris was an unknown quantity whilst Leonard was highly recognized, highly favored. But after the fight, Norris shattered the leonard myth forever.
Norris was an unknown quantity? What he would accomplish was already established by the Leonard fight.
I'm talking about the "who has he fought" issue. Comparing opposition one wouldn't know anything about Terry's competition. That's what I mean about him being an unknown quantity. People might give him recognition that he'd been stopped by Jackson if they were lucky enough to have caught it on Wide World of Sports that afternoon. Not that it was worth anything to anyone so in effect, Terry was nobody. What most people knew about was Leonard's. The big fights that everyone like SuzieQ looks at and gets a big hard on over. In fact, that's all anyone knew going into that fateful day. I looked past it though and just knew Terry was going to murder him. He made a bad mistake in his choice of opponent this time.
I think if ray hadnt been cut short he could have achieved more recognition from the classic guys to be counted as THE best welter of all time. (personally,i put him as no1 ahead of robinson anyway.) He would have dominated all the up and coming welters,and then it would be time to clean up the 154 division. Of course,mr hearns was fanatastic at this weight and could beat ray,but i go for leonard again in a very close fight. He could then proceed to beat mccallum by virtue of his ring smarts,speed and adaptability,ditto 154 duran. Finally,the big one,the challenge to prime marvin ,and ray walks off with a 15 round decision because of his speed and lateral movement,very similiar to what actually happened in 87. I think,he would beat many of the middles of the eighties/nineties,but who knows if he would have stuck around after achieving all this mythical madness....Nunn would have been the toughest by virtue of his size,skill and natural weight. As it is,i think ray is the best overall 147 man of them all,and one of the greats at 154. He achieved soo much in a small amount of time because of the truely great fighters he fought. At Middle,he could be competitive with many greats as well. I just damn wish roberto hadnt eaten his way out of the rematch,duran was the man to beat ray at 147,and a rematch with duran would have been fascinating to see how ray and duran adjusted...