The dirty little secret about Robinson is that his stamina might not have been totally top level. Here is his performances in fights which went 15 rounds at middleweight. 1. Turpin--lost badly 2. Olson--in SF in 1952. Robinson wins a close decision and has to be helped from the ring. The press describes him as exhausted. 3. Fullmer--Robinson loses badly. 4. Basilio--Robinson loses to a much smaller man 5. Basilio--Robinson wins close one after freak injury closes one of Basilio's eyes. Still a split decision. Robinson is exhausted at end and has to be helped to his dressing room. 6. Pender--Robinson loses 7. Pender--Robinson loses 8. Fullmer--Robinson in a great effort for a man his age gets a draw. 9. Fullmer--Robinson loses badly. Total record in 15 round fights 2 wins--6 losses--1 draw Certainly this umimposing record and the fact he was so fatigued after even his victories makes one question if his stamina is at the highest level. A contributing factor may be that his constant move and toss gobs of punches style wasted energy. It made him awesome in the early rounds, but also perhaps drained him over the long run. And yes, he did win six middleweight championship fights by ko. all but the LaMotta fight from the 10th round or earlier.
You might want to put forward some stylistic analysis. You just sound like a thick **** to be honest, which you're probably not as yu're intelligent enough to even be aware of 'old-time' fighters :good
What is this? Hate Ray week? Robinson, Aganst Turpin was not in top shape ,deserved to lose and did ,he put things right in the second fight. Against Olson, Robinson was 30 and 31.not old but his prime was as a welter. Against Maxim he was 31 we differ on why he lost so I wont go there. Against Fullmer he was 35,36,37. Against Basilio he was 37 . Against Pender he was 39 and 40. Lack of stamina ? How many times did he not finish? I think this post is nonsensical.
" Maxim constanly pressed the fight". Bollocks for half of it he was lapped by Robinson,he stood in ring center ,asked after wards why he didnt throw more punches he said "I couldnt hit him". Show me any contemporary account of this fight that says Maxim constantly pressed the fight.TOTAL TOSH
Actually, I rate Robinson #1 p4p. Turpin-not in top shape--well, why not? How many excuses do we have to listen to. Anyway, why did Robinson duck a rubber match even though there was talk of the first ever million dollar gate below heavyweight? Robinson was indeed growing old, and he did not seem to age as well as Fitz. "How many times did he not finish?" Once against Maxim. But finishing isn't winning either. The fact is in fights that went the distance at middle, he went 2-6-1. And in championship fights which went past the 10th round he was 3-7-1 from the LaMotta fight on.
Stupid analogies, Those old fights were fought at a much slower pace ,plus they were outdoors. All the reporters present at the fight said it was like an oven. Peter Wilson said he had to take salt in his beer immediately after the fight ,and that just watching it his clothes were soaked through. Did either referee collapse and have to be replaced in the Kilrain Sullivan or Nelson fights,which Daniel was NOT present at? Did a referee ever collapse with heat exhaustion in another championship fight The temperature at Yankee`Stadium that night was 104 degreesit was the hottest June 25th in New York's recorded history. To add to the heat there were 38,500 watts of photo flood lamps ,any of that at the fights you mentioned? The score cards were Ray up 10 -3 on one and Ray up 9-3 on the other. Goldsteins card was worth less because it was soaked through and illegible. But beleive what you want to, even if it is a crock of ****.
I don't care what contemporary accounts say about this fight as I have it on film. Contemporary accounts minimized or ignored Maxim's body punches, which I think sapped Robinson's strength. Kearns explained that he told Maxim to keep on top of Robinson when Robinson broke off his attack and retreated for a rest, and Maxim did. As Dan Daniel said in The Ring, contemporary accounts ran with the heat angle and bought totally into Robinson's excuses. In a pervous way, this is a tribute to Robinson's stature at the time. But the facts are it was hot for both men and Maxim easily outlasted Robinson. "TOTAL TOSH" I think the fight stands in the record book as Maxim, ko 14. "And all the king's horses and all the king's men, Couldn't put Humpty together again."
1. These old fights were outdoors--Yankee Stadium is indoors? 2. So the reporters in Mississippi in 1889 thought it was cool. The old fights were in the heat of the midday sun. Now I live in a hot climate and am currently having work done on my lawn. The crew comes early in the morning, leaves at 11, and returns in the evening. They do not work in the hot sun. However slow paced you think the old fights were, they also were over much longer periods, and the Sullivan-Kilrain fight included wrestling. 3. Actually, quite a few referees have DIED in the ring. 4. What I did was quote Dan Daniel. All this heat talk does not explain why Maxim outlasted Robinson, danced around the ring at the end, and went to a party afterward. An explanation which explains nothing is no explanation. 5. As Dan Daniel said, it was HOT, and has often been hot for big fights, but this has not been used to explain one fighter's loss. I don't remember anyone ever saying Frazier lost to Ali in Manilla because it was HOT.
No bias from you here Robinson was known for having a soft streak ,and not being tough .enough. That's why he only had 200 fights and lost so many of them [19]. Plus he was stopped often, what was it once? Soft? He took on the number one contender at the age of 44 and went the distance. Didnt take on another Lhvy? No he didnt he retried after that fight and came back and fought any top middle weight that would fight him when he was in his middle thirties and into his forties. **** me, I give up.
Robinson did lack stamina. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNcO4xXKRGQ :huh I felt he was actually coming on in many of those fights that were listed in which he supposedly showed stamina problems.
Any record of those fights being fought in 104 heat with banks of arc lights for the film crews? Any record of a referee collapsing with heat prostration in a championship fight ? Ever seen, or heard of Robinson making ANY EXCUSE AFTER LOSING A FIGHT? Ever, seen or heard of Robinson being less than generous to an opponent that beat him? Dan Daniel stands on his own here because I could quote ten writers as well known as him who said the opposite,including Wilson,Rice ,Heinz ,and Abramson. The Mayor Impellittiere and Dr Schiif both said Robinson was incoherent after the fight,was that due to Maxims punches? I like your posts , and I have seen the fight ,but I feel you are off base here.
On the Corbett Maxim comparison: While Maxim was a good boxer he was clearly not a heavy hitter for a light heavyweight and frankly, that might be why Robinson fought him and not Archie Moore. Now Corbett was not a heavyy hitter at heavyweight but he was compared to the average light heavyweight. He was not outboxing middleweights when he fought them he was destroying them.