Sugar Ray Robinson .Vs. Roberto Duran

Sugar Ray Robinson

 

There was a mild critique of the WW Robinson that was being tossed around in the 40s and has been barely heard since. That was that he was not physically strong, that he may have been a bit "fragile". I don't remember where I heard or read it, but I think that it may have been held by Armstrong as well as the contemporary analyst/reporter who made the observation. The films show a tall and lanky WW, ripped and shredded. He was a bit like Hearns in his frame, aggression, speed, and power. He had a tough time coping with the undeniably strong, though heavier, Lamotta. Part of his tough time was self-induced -he'd tear into stronger men.

Duran was physically strong. Not many LWs in history were stronger, and to compete as he did against much larger men, inside, at an advanced age, is testimony to his natural strength.

Robinson was aggressive as a WW, but not always. Late in the 40s, making limit got even harder than it always had been. The Fusari fight is a good example --Robinson made it a sparring session because he was weight-drained and weak. In fact, the last time he made weight before that was Gavilan II. Duran was very aggressive in Montreal. Less so after, but that doesn't matter here. Both guys were offensive-minded, but Duran had the better defense and the better chin.

...I'd wager that Duran's chin would hold up better than Robinson's. Near prime Ray was hurt or dropped at or near-prime by hard-punching Artie Levine and Tommy Bell, and the ill-fated Doyle. Gavilan supposedely shook him up in round 8 of the rematch. However, WW Robinson's power is comparable to WW Hearns' and if enough land, Duran will be hurt and could go down.

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This fight is an interesting one. Duran was physically strong, at least as technically sound as Robinson, had the better defense and the better chin, and he had superb strategists in his corner in Arcel and Brown. These guys saw Robinson and they knew his style well. They could be counted on to devise a foil and they'd have a worthy instrument in 1979-1980 Duran.

Robinson had the height and reach advantage, the speed advantage, and was a fierce puncher. I believe that this last asset is very important to beat Duran at his best -you must have the guns to keep Duran honest (this is the major reason I can't see Whitaker beating him at LW or WW). Robinson's speed is another important asset here. He was not as mobile as a Leonard could be, but he used angles well and was about the best combination puncher I've ever seen. The way he ripped uppercuts to the body on incoming guys and then finished to the head was serious. His killer instinct was beyond even Hearns or Cuevas IMO -it matched Duran (at least before the Doyle fight).

I see Robinson fighting Duran much harder than Leonard -he'd tear into him earlier than Leonard (who I suspect was really forced by Duran to stand and fight after round 2). I see Robinson starting and finishing combinations and resetting for the Duran response in between and after. I don't see Arcel and Brown making too many adjustment to this fight that would be different than the Leonard one. Duran's only real choice would be to get inside -attempting to make Robinson reach and then counter him would be too risky because Robinson was too good at setting and judging distance. Their big concern for incoming Duran would be that lethal left hook of Robinson. He'd connect like DeJesus' only with concrete and lightning. And if Robinson smelled blood, he was a great enough finisher to close the show -Duran could be stopped. Or, if Duran got inside and pounded the body and in fact established himself enough to bull the skinnier man around and do damage, and a knockdown of Ray is absolutely possible, Robinson could switch gears and establish dominance on the outside, cruising to a hard-fought decision.

I'd guess that this would be a very, very aggressive fight for the first several rounds with Robinson going right at the smaller man tooth and nail and Duran firing right back while angling inside. After that, one of two scenerios are likely:

1. Duran eventually connects and then connects again and Robinson goes down. Arcel would seek to conserve Duran like he did after round 2 against Leonard when Leonard was hurt, and Duran would stay aggressive but would not seek closure. Robinson would stay away and fire from outside. Robinson takes 7 rounds, Duran 5, on two cards. Perhaps one. Razor-thin decision win, more likely for Robinson. No one would feel in their hearts that "Robinson fought Duran's fight".

2. Robinson eventuallyt finds Duran with a left hook as Duran is coming in. Duran goes down. He gets up and is okay, but not for long. Robinson being Robinson blasts away to the body and the head, and stops Duran. This isn't Buchanan in there, or DeJesus, or Leonard.

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Remember tho LaMotta is a MUCH bigger man than Duran. Jake = a fully fledged middleweight, and a great at that weight. SRR was a natural welter who had that disadvantage vs Jake. Duran was a natural lightweight who will have that same disadvantage vs SRR. We had the greatest Welter ever moving up against a great but far from number 1 middle, and we have probably the greatest 135 going up against the greatest 147.

I like Robinson by decision in a memorable fight. Duran's fire, savvy and all round game will mean he gives a great account of himself. Robinson's natural size and brilliance are big assets here. His combination of slashing speed and power are second only to Hearn's. Many don't realise what a tremendous puncher SRR was at 147. Second only to Hearns in quite a few's estimation.

 

Duran will pressurize and be very competitive indeed, but Robinsons movement, ring generalship, speed and variety allows him to take a close UD. Edging it down the stretch.

 

Very good post! Nice read.

I suppose that if there's one fight I would like to see it's this one. Two so naturally aggressive and deadly guys, but with tons of skill, going at each other, can't disappoint. This is for me probably the most attractive fantasy match-up.

 

I know that Robinson could definitely out box Duran the way Leonard did in their rematch and COULD have in their first fight. I honestly didn't see any difference between the Montreal Duran and the Duran in the rematch, it was the simple fact that Leonard boxed him the way he suppose to and didn't give up any of his advantages. Robinson punched harder than Leonard and was better on the inside IMO, on top of having more mental toughness and a better chin. I like Robinson by a close unanimous decision.

 

Further proof that you just don't have a clue what you're talking about.

 

I didn't say anything that wasn't the truth, and according to you the only reason why Robinson looked too fast is because of the old cameras back then. You can find that quote in the Robinson/Jones thread at the other site.

 

Still haven't grown up, have we? Still resorting to blatantly lying to attempt to prove your points? You're a disease on every forum you post at. Stop contaminating this place with your nonsense and stick to boxing-scene.

 

I am respected on every website that i go to, YOU are the one that continuously hate for no apparent reason and have been hating ever since you were at boxing scene. I can bring up some of your quotes as well, its just the censors keep blocking every link that i post from that site. I come here to talk about boxing history, Dawson and current boxing because the other site is now over flowing with crap posters, crap threads and is just turning into an all around lame site. I am not ''contaminating'' anything, and the only person that has a problem is you. :think

 

Everyone else that is aware of your presence as a poster on this site hates you equally. Your relative obscurity due to lack of consistent posting is the only reason you aren't as vocally despised by others. You're a scumbag. A deceptive, coniving snake.

 

I'd stick my neck out and go with Duran. He can win this fight. Robinson has the tools to beat anyone but I'm still to see a better performance than Duran in Montreal.

 

SRR beats every Welter who has drawn breath ,imo.

 

I'm a ''scumbag''? lol. I have two sets of advice. Find some new words to use because that sounded as lame as you could possibly get, and grow up. If someone was looking in on this discussion, then they would swore i am the older person. Who is name calling and who is trying to reason? Throughout all of the boxing forums that i have been to, nobody takes the internet as serious as you do. Its REALLY not that serious home boy.