Tavoris Cloud Vs Anyone Not Called Hopkins

Discussion in 'British Boxing Forum' started by Flea Man, Jun 8, 2011.

  1. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2008
    Messages:
    82,426
    Likes Received:
    1,478
    The man with the interesting name hass been plagued by inactivity, but has faced good opposition for a man with 22 fights (22-0 18 K.Os)

    Notable wins: Julio Cesar Gonzalez; was once 'the man who beat the man'. Durable. Way past his best.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zViLOQwCE28&feature=related[/ame] [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zbFi4ND0JI[/ame]

    Glencoffe Johnson, we all know him. He did what he did best in this fight, came up and gave the kid a fight. Full fight is on yt :good

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGCwikpJQ0g[/ame]

    Clinton Woods, coming off a woeful performance against Tarver, but took a couple of rounds off Cloud for sure. But was he better prepared here or was Cloud lacking? I definitely think it's the former.

    He was touted as a bit of a puncher on the way up.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut6VRuQK9-Q&feature=related[/ame]

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkqSvj1rBLI&feature=related[/ame]

    First and foremost, he's a fairly straightforward aggressive type. I've seen some say they've seen him buzzed, can't remember it myself, but I'm open to the idea of him not being one of those come forward fighters. He puts his punches together quite well sometimes, but not many of them seem to have much snap. He tries to utilise upper body movement and his jab, but can ecome hook happy as the fight goes on and can tire, but that's natural. Johnson knocked him around a bit late, but I was impressed by Clouds efforts.

    I do remember Clinton Woods strangling him with his jab at times. But Woods was a durable and experienced fighter.

    As for his power, I'm not sold on it. Whilst it's solid enough, and I gave him a pass for some time due to the steady flow of experienced, durable opposition he was facing, not sparking Zuniga is a bit odd, he has wilted in firefights with bigger stronger guys at 160 and 168, I'm surprised he went the 12 with Cloud.

    So, some info please chaps, I've only seen a few of his fights (few rounds of Gonzalez, full fights with Woods and Johnson and a few earlier ones) so give me your wisdom :good

    -How hard does he hit? Am I being harsh on him for not getting of Fulgencio? A solid but not concussive puncher? Does the overall durability factor of his most notable opponents (the three most durable light heavyweights of the last ten years) mean he could still be a 'big' puncher at World level, or is he a guy going to consistently require a high workrate to sap his opponents energy and go the D'? Which of the top ten fighters would you give him a good chance of stopping?

    -How does he get on with notorious round sleepers Dawson and Pascal?

    -Against 'the rest'? I'd pick him over Clev and Shumenov for sure. How would the rest of the top ten get on with him? And if you must post 'Sillakh beats him easy' please explain why :yep :good

    -What are his main weaknesses?

    -How far can he go, and who should be looking for next?

    -Taking his number of fights, patches of inactivity and level of opposition into account, how well has his career progressed up to now?

    -Where does he currently rank in the current 175lbers your opinion?

    This content is protected


    2. Jean Pascal
    3. Chad Dawson
    4. Tavoris Cloud (IBF)
    5. Zsolt Erdei
    6. Beibut Shumenov (WBA)
    7. Gabriel Campillo
    8. Nathan Cleverly (WBO)
    9. Chris Henry
    10. Adrian Diaconu
    11. Dmitry Sukhotsky
    12. Yussuf Mack
    13. Ismayl Sillakh
    14. Eduard Gutknecht
    15. Karo Murat
     
  2. Mandanda

    Mandanda SkillspayBills Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2008
    Messages:
    25,993
    Likes Received:
    4
    Like these threads. Good work Flea.

    Tbh i haven't seen a great deal so cannot really comment to much but i think

    Weaknesses: Defense...IIRC he was wide open to Woods jab. Also the bark Johnson laughed when he howled before that fight. The bark does him no favor's IMO. I think also punch selection is poor in terms of just throwing for volume i like to see fighters sometimes land 2 clean hard punches then throw 10 land 4 cuffing shots.

    As B-Hop once said ''I'm gonna let my bullets fly cos i have them?. If i got 50 and i only got to use 5 to hit the target why use all of them just to make noise?''

    I don't believe he's as powerful as first thought although his first two world title fights couldn't of been against more durable guys in Woods and Johnson.

    His inactivity is gonna hamper his career pure and simple.

    I'd love to see him fight Cleverly....that would be amazing for workrate and it just be a war of attrition.

    Dawson: Chad Beats him. Just has a bit to much for him at present and i think he'd take it to points 117-111. I'm bit worried about Dawson though atm but that's for another time.

    Pascal: This would be a great fight. Similar to Froch vs Pascal although not as heroic. I think Pascal has started to run far to much in fights and Ramsey needs to stop that tactic it's draining Pascal and only works for 4 rounds. I think Cloud could pressure and stalk for 6-7 rounds and then engage Pascal in a war. Early doors he'd get caught and beaten to punches. No shame in that even Dawson and Hopkins struggled to read Pascal's unorthodox attacks. This fight would be won down the stretch.

    Pascal may take it at this point....safe choice. Just cos he lost to B-Hop don't mean he's a bad fighter but he'd have to ride some rough patches to get over line.

    I think he's around 3-4 in rankings. He's beaten two good fighters in Woods and Johnson as well as Gonzalez earlier on in career. He's got decent pedigree.
     
  3. TFFP

    TFFP The Eskimo

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    45,002
    Likes Received:
    4
    I think he'd be alright against Anthony Hopkins.
     
  4. DrMo

    DrMo Team GB Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2011
    Messages:
    22,198
    Likes Received:
    24
    Never been hugely impressed by Cloud, his style & performances

    Does some things very well but not exceptionally so, he has looked good but not potentially great imo

    Also dont think he's physically the biggest LHW Ive ever seen, looks more like a SMW

    Would lose against Dawson & Hopkins, Pascal would be close & Clev would be intriguing but there 0 chance of W@rren putting him in with anyone of note for the forseeable future
     
  5. TFFP

    TFFP The Eskimo

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    45,002
    Likes Received:
    4
    I think he's just a volume fighter. Thats my impression so far. Not a big hitter and not ultra skilled, just throws a mammoth volume of punchers for a LHW. Which is probably why he racked up an eye catching KO record against mostly tomato cans (and ground down a shop worn Gonzalez). I mean when he did that it raised a few eye brows, but since then we've seen a more accurate reflection of his power.

    He also thinks its a crime to throw a jab, I'm pretty sure.

    He's good enough though, sure to be involved in good fights if they come off..
     
  6. TFFP

    TFFP The Eskimo

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    45,002
    Likes Received:
    4
    :rofl
     
  7. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2008
    Messages:
    82,426
    Likes Received:
    1,478
    :lol:

    Good posts all round lads, glad to see others have noted his volume is not masking his ragged work.

    Mandanda in particular, nice work indeed.

    Clev Vs Cloud would be a great slug fest IMO. Clev is even more open than him though, and I could see Cloud beating him down in a war of attrition. Clev has a decent chin I reckon, but until I see it proven Margarito-stylee I can't overlook the fact that, even by Clouds standards, he gets hit way too much.

    You all seem to agree with me on his power.

    Anyone else?

    And on Sillakh TFFP? I actually think he matches up quite well with Cloud :lol: It's poor punch selection against lovely punch selection, hmmm, I wonder who I'll go for? :think

    In a year, hopefully he'll be ready to step it up, in the eyes of his management.

    I'm hijacking my own thread; TFFP, who next for Sillakh? Ain't he got a patsy lined up next? Who would you like to see after that, who could test him whilst being a feasible opponent? :good
     
  8. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2008
    Messages:
    82,426
    Likes Received:
    1,478
    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjGFBdC9mmg[/ame]

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvmRZihbmb8&feature=related[/ame]

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DSYwiD0KOk&feature=related[/ame]
     
  9. harvinmagler

    harvinmagler Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3,297
    Likes Received:
    0
    Isn't he fighting Yusef Mack on the Devon Alexander undercard?
     
  10. 'Ben'

    'Ben' Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2009
    Messages:
    6,307
    Likes Received:
    1
    I first watched Cloud against Gonzalez and remember being impressed. He gave him one hell of a beating and did what other top guys in the division couldn't do... and that's stop him. He also seemed to have a fantastic work rate... not that I've changed my mind but my cofidence in what seemed to be his gretest strength was dented when he fought Glen Johnson.

    I still think he could pull off an upset against Dawson but that will be as much to with Dawson's drifting in fights as it would be Clouds gradual, yet persistant pressure. I could see a close points win for Cloud.

    I think Hopkins would find a way. Cloud would put up a better fight than Pacal did against him last time round... but I can see Hopkins picking off just enough to get the decision.

    As for Cleverly, more than anything, I'd say it would be a classic! I think Cleverly's workrate is better than Clouds but is very exposed when he comes forward and drops his lead hand before he throws it. He has a good chin but can be stunned like his last fight showed. Cloud would certainly be able top stun him because of it... but Cleverly is very fast and is massive for the weight with a good chin! I could see it going either way on as a tight points decision.
     
  11. Boro chris

    Boro chris Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Messages:
    10,275
    Likes Received:
    21
    He's not bad. Wouldn't fancy his chances against against boxers like Dawson or Campillo but he'd have a bit too much persistance for Cleverly or Shuemenov. Pascall would be an interesting matchup and I'd like to see him in against Chris Henry (although he seems pretty inactive) or Diaconu.
     
  12. LHL

    LHL Captain Freedom Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2008
    Messages:
    23,826
    Likes Received:
    3
    -How hard does he hit?
    I think Cloud hits hard enough just what he does before it and after it really hampers him. I've hardly ever seen him set up a punch he just seems to put everything into every punch and just keeps going. He had Woods hurt I seem to remember but putting him away would be another thing. Going from the way he fights he looks like a terrible finisher just throwing for the sake of it rather than picking holes for his shots. Like Mand says throwing 10 to land 4 semi decent punches.

    -How does he get on with notorious round sleepers Dawson and Pascal?
    Think he would be beaten by Dawson the Pascal fight might be another matter. Dawson for me has the tools to take Cloud apart again as its been mentioned he eats a good jab all day Woods had a lot of success with it. He will always have a decent chance with people who like to take rounds off with his sort of work rate. Pascal has been gassing badly lately and hasn't really been pushed work rate wise. Think he would squeak out a decision there.

    -Against 'the rest'?
    Think he would be too strong for Cleverly who loves a war but hasn't been in with someone like Cloud. Clouds work rate and the amount of power punches he throws I think he would get to cleverly. Unless Clev made a big style change for this fight which I think he could do I would have Cloud for this. I'd favour the boxers like Erdei, Dawson and Campillo

    -What are his main weaknesses?
    His main weakness I would say he is very one dimensional and has shown no thought of changing mid fight. If his pressure and stamina doesn't win him the fight I'm not too sure he has anything else to fall back on. Like TFFP says he has no jab and is all hooks and uppercuts at the minute. His defence as had been mentioned is shocking he is a hard fighter to beat with that sort of style but it just takes the right fighter to do it and I think there is a few in his division.
     
  13. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2008
    Messages:
    82,426
    Likes Received:
    1,478
    He is, I'd planned a gag calling him 'Useful' Mack....glad I didn't, but I should've acknowledged the fight :lol: :good
     
  14. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2008
    Messages:
    82,426
    Likes Received:
    1,478
    Ben, Chris and LHL, thanks for your contributions, all quality :good
     
  15. JFT96

    JFT96 Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    4,636
    Likes Received:
    1
    Having not seen Cloud before the Woods fight, I struggle to see how he got this reputation as a ferocious puncher who was about to knock Clinton around the ring and into retirement. Having seen him quite a bit since, his power is one of the things which doesn't particularly impress me about him, though he has got a decent bit of pop. I suppose that reputation came about due to sub-standard opposition before moving into world class level.

    I wasn't impressed against Woods at all. After the impression I had got of him before the fight and seeing how Clinton struggled badly v Tarver, I thought he'd do him inside 6/7 rounds. Yet not only did Clinton stay with him, I had him at most 2 points behind going into the final 3 rounds but did see Cloud eventually a clear winner. I thought he looked too easy to hit and too hell bent on catching him with power shots. Saying that he put his punches together nicely at times and showed decent variety in his attacks I thought.

    I actually had Johnson beating him by a round when they fought but my respect and appreciation grew a lot. The way he fought toe to toe on the inside with one of the best exponents of that art and more than held his own was excellent I thought. I could understand why he thought it might be an effective strategy, given his youth saw him throw and land more but I would have liked to have seen him vary the distance a bit more and give himself a bit more leverage to land better punches. IMO Johnson threw the cleaner blows (though landed less) and should have just knicked it but I reckon it was a significant improvement on the Woods fight. His first 2 world title fights being against such distinguished veterans, who you could hardly call shot, gets my respect as well. Would be nice to see that trait in other fighters cos I definitely think its improved him as a fighter.

    Though Zuniga’s not the greatest of opponents I did feel Cloud was showing signs of progression in that fight. Looking forward to his next defence now to see how much he is improving. His aggression is not as reckless as I’d first noticed and I think he’s getting more comfortable in himself and his style now that he realises he doesn’t need to blast everyone out of there to succeed at world level. A good prospect I’m looking to what’s ahead for him, right now H2H I reckon he’d beat Shumenov, Cleverly and Dawson but may struggle with Pascal and I could see B-Hop still being too wily for him.

    Sorry for such a long winded post :lol::good