I know I can wiki most of this, but I wanted to hear your thoughts on Sean O'Grady. He was already on USA Tuesday Night Fights when I got interested in boxing, and I know he started very young and retired at a young age as well, but had a ton of fights. What sort of fighter was he? How good was he?
O'Grady was a very good and underrated fighter. He turned pro at an extremely young age, something like 15, and burned out at out early age. He got screwed in his first world title fight vs Jim Watt. Got a second chance vs Hilmer Kenty and beat his ass. His dad got into a pissing match with the WBA, cost Sean the WBA title, missing a payday vs Howard Davis. He poorly matched against Andy Gannigan, a hard punching southpaw, getting KO ed in 2. O'Grady's chin was never the same, losing by KO to Johnny Verderosa of all people. He read the writing on the wall and retired.
Always liked the Bubblegum Kid. Pleasing boxer-puncher style and a very, very good body puncher. Met him once many years ago when he was working as a commentator for a USA Network Tuesday Night Fights broadcast. Super-nice guy.
Watched the fight with Andy Gannigan last night. It was pretty good. Both guys took some big shots -- O'Grady's best landed after the 2nd knockdown I think. Was O'Grady seriously hurt? I didn't see anything in the last knockdown, but he stayed down a long time. Wasn't sure if he was hurt (can't think at that stage it was precautionary measures) or just dejected?
I don't know how anybody could validly disagree with all this, and it speaks volumes that he worked in the early days of Top Rank Boxing on ESPN as Sal Marciano's color commentator before Al Bernstein, and even before challenging Jim Watt and defeating Hilmer Kenty [in fact, I'm not certain, but Sean may have been ESPN's very first regular broadcast analyst, and also did seven bouts for CBS]. Along with the WBA, Papa Pat got into a pissing match with Bob Arum [therefore Top Rank] after his son defeated Kenty, costing Sean his ESPN gig, but not before Sean was able to acknowledge and lament the conflict in a final ESPN card as the newly crowned WBA champion, and express his personal affection for Marciano and ESPN in a way which made it clear this was his father's doing. Pat O'Grady, who died of pneumonia at just age 60 in March 1988, was frankly something of a grandstanding blowhard. Promoter wife and mother Jean didn't exactly put the breaks on Pat's behavior. Sean is the antithesis of his old man. [Ditto for Gregorio and Wilfredo Benitez.] Sean's parents carefully built up his boxing career over many years and fights through sheer weight of numbers in the friendly and decked confines of Oklahoma City, then sabotaged his WBA Title acquisition before he could even defend it. Pat ballyhooed his son well, protected him competently, then megalomaniacally overreached when Sean got to the top after seven years. Because he is so well liked as a person, and had such a pleasing style, this is a question which must be confronted with a certain measure of frank boldness. Pat purposely over matched his teenage son against Danny Lopez to get the undefeated ****** off his son's back [subscribing in theory to Billy's Conn's philosophy that, "When a fighter's undefeated, there's something wrong"], so I don't place much significance in that outcome. However, he never decisioned a world class opponent in prime condition decisively, and never stopped one prior to the final bell. Gonzalo Montellano was 25-0-1 when Sean was awarded a 12 round MD in defense of his USBA LW Title in Omaha. How does that scoring play out on neutral turf? Sean won that USBA Title over the championship distance in Oklahoma City against super rugged Arturo Leon [who less than a year earlier became the only opponent of Arguello's who would ever go the distance in a title challenge of Alexis]. NOBODY punched veteran Leon out, so no knock against Sean there, but defeating him over the limit on Sean's turf was no great shakes, as Arturo had already been defeated 17 times over the distance. Before Sean cut Watt open, Jim was clearly on his way to an easy decision win. Sean looked like the most inexperienced 73-1 title challenger in history. Bleeding from his eyes reversed the complexion of their match by putting Watt on the defensive, but he was still ahead with a rapidly diminishing lead when the fatal butt occurred. [Even Pat O'Grady acknowledged that butt was purely accidental.] The O'Gradys definitely should have understood the dynamics of competing in hostile territory, having made use of Oklahoma City and Omaha cooking themselves often enough, but seemed unable to cope with the other side of that environment. In a multiple match rivalry on neutral ground, not Glasgow or Oklahoma City, Watt comes out on top, probably in successive bouts. Sean wasn't ready for him. Although Hilmer Kenty was at his athletic peak, it's also very well known he had a case of walking pneumonia so severe he should have been hospitalized for it. [I worked in a hospital at the time, and knew a number of athletic kids and young adults who were in fact hospitalized for pneumonia at the time, my brother among them.] What's troublesome to me isn't that Sean defeated an ill opponent, but that he failed to take that ill opponent outta there, despite trying mightily to do so. [More troubling to me though that Steward did not protect Kenty by postponing the match.] Sean was stripped of the WBA Title after just five months for not defending against Claude Noel. Watching the 34 year old Noel fracture the jaw of young and heralded undefeated right hand bomber Gato Gonzalez in winning a dominant 15 round decision, a successful defense for Sean over veteran Noel would have been no sure thing, but it might have provided us a truer indication of O'Grady's authentic quality as a competitor at the world class level. Gonzalez got to Noel for Sean's stripped WBA Title in part by decisioning Ganigan over ten rounds in April 1981. The month after Noel-Ganigan crowned O'Grady's WBA successor, Sean got blasted out by Andy in two. Pat O'Grady's spurious excuse was that they simply didn't realize he'd outgrown the lightweight division, and was weakened by having to make weight [a flagrantly false allegation, as Sean weighed 132 for Ganigan, 133 for Kenty, and 133 for Watt]. The real wake-up call finally came when the excellent Pete Ranzany, winding down his career, took Sean to school over ten rounds in Las Vegas in October 1982. Pete had dropped wide decisions to Pat Hallacy [in Ranzany's Sacramento] and McCrory over the previous ten months. No more excuses about weight drain or inadequate height and reach for the 5'10" O'Grady at WW. Sean, a good guy, just didn't measure up to the hype as a boxer at a consistent world class level. Verderosa was clearly the right time to retire. Johnny The Heat was damaged goods after the way Boza Edwards steamrolled him a year earlier, and didn't have a fraction of the blinding speed at 147 he possessed at 130. O'Grady started off very well, blasting into the 5'5" Verderosa with devastating looking shots which nonetheless were well absorbed by the former USBA SFW Champion. When round four came, and The Heat returned fire, the naturally bigger Sean couldn't withstand it, and crumbled. For a career post mortem, Sean gave an interview to KO Magazine headlined with his comment that, "All of a sudden, I couldn't take a punch!" He was too young to have lost this ability against Ganigan and Verderosa. He didn't take enough punishment in his 78 mostly brief fights [largely against tomato cans and tankers in Oklahoma City] to account for his loss of that ability prior to Ganigan. That leads me to suspect he never really possessed that durability to begin with. [And if he'd taken so many shots that his own cash register analogy about cumulative decline of chin resistance had any merit, he'd be slurring in a nursing home or dead of pugilistica dementia, not a popular boxing analyst with nearly 35 years before the camera behind a microphone.] Ranzany raises questions about how good a boxer Sean really was. He was getting outjabbed and outboxed on the retreat early against the shorter Watt before the blood started flowing from either, and won the WBA LW Title from a defending champion running a fever with fluid in his lungs. But the one time he went the limit against a healthy stylist with veteran skills, he got schooled, and this at a time he was at his own peak of experience. Enjoyed watching him compete, and like him as a person, but do not wish to let those considerations cloud my judgement of the reality of his fighting quality. I don't believe he was remotely as good as he was popular [and was stunned at how Verderosa retired him, as I thought Boza Edwards took a lot out of Johnny to soften him up for Sean]. Chuck Davey's 1952 was better than Sean's entire career.
Thanks for the information Anubis. Its sounds like his Dad was a piece of work. Sean always seemed very genuine as an analyst. Any reason why Kinty didn't postpone? Would he have been stripped? It's interesting that he wouldn't postpone, but then O'Grady didn't really get to defend his belt. Maybe Omaha will play host to more professional bouts again.
A few thoughts: 1) Shig Fukuyama was a world-class opponent, less than a year removed from a world title challenge (got taken out by David Kotey in three at featherweight and moved up to 130, where he fought Sean). He had a win over Danny Lopez and had beaten some tough West Coast fighters (and lost to some, too). 2) Arturo Leon was, as you pointed out, world-class and had a world-class chin. That's a good win for Sean whether they fought in OKC or on the moon. 3) I saw the Gonzo Montellano fight (and have it on videotape somewhere). It was a tough, close fight but I thought Sean won. Omaha isn't in Oklahoma -- yes, it's in the 'Dust Bowl' area of the country but there's nothing suspicious or crooked about the decision, it could have gone either way. 4) I have never seen the "Kenty was on his death bed from pneumonia" claim substantiated in any way. I'd love to see a record from that time to shed some light on it, it smells like urban legend to me. If there's some sort of proof, please link. I would also point out that there's a difference between pneumonia and walking pneumonia. The latter rarely requires hospitalization and is no worse than a cold in most cases -- people often don't even know they have it until the cold doesn't go away and it shows up in a blood test. I've had both and I went to work every day with walking pneumonia, the non-walking pneumonia had me bed-ridden feeling like I was going to die. 5) Punch resistance is a funny thing. Once a chin is cracked, even a very, very good one, sometimes fighters find they can't take a shot at all. Ganigan could have done that to Sean. Or even with all those easy fights against nobodies (and make no mistake, O'Grady also fought his share of solid journeymen) he was no defensive whiz and was surely hit many times -- not to mention starting pro at that age with an overzealous father, one has to wonder how many times he was put in with full-grown men of some ability to spar with while he was still really just a teenager. All that can accumulate. By the time he fought Ranzany or Verderosa, there's also a burnout factor. His entire life from basically his mid-teenage years own was completely lorded over by a dad who wasn't exactly up for Father of the Year. Every facet of his life was likely controlled for a very long time, and by the time he reached that point in his career he had more than 300 rounds under his belt as a pro and had only been out of the ring for a break of more than a couple of months a few times in eight years, often fightin multiple times in the same month. It seems likely to me that after he finally got to the mountaintop by beating Kenty for the title and then seeing his father ruin everything that he lost all enthusiasm for the game. That's not to say O'Grady was an all-time great, but he's got a few good scalps on his record, and in my view was on his way to beating Watt before the head butt that caused the cuts (as you noted Watt's early lead was evaporating). Without that happening, I think Sean would be looked at in an entirely different light.
Sean got an awful lot of favors during his career. The refing in the Fukuyama bout as really bizarre, since Shig had slice O'Grady up badly and had him in dire trouble a number of times. Then with Sean regrouped and had Shig under fire the ref stepped in, when Shig's knockdown and occasional follow up punches wasn't as bad as O'Grady's being staggered multiple times and sliced up. There was a massive outcry from writers and fans alike at the time. Kenty's illness was well publicized at the time. And I think O'Grady's decision to get stripped rather than face the dangerous Claude Noel speaks volumes. People say that Sean got burnt out from too many fights and that's why he lost those three fights at the end of his career. I say he just lost to three world class fighters, which was the pattern already established in the fights with Lopez and Watts. Maybe Sean had talent, but with his defense it was a miracle he didn't end up with serious dementia by the time he was twenty five.
Where's the substantiation from this oft-repeated claim? You say it was well publicized but by whom? His cornermen or manager? Was there ever a medical diagnosis? As poster stated above, there is big difference between the types of pneumonia. Just sounds like typical spin to explain an unexpected loss. I think both Kenty and O'Grady were good tough kids but Sean had his number on that day. Don't know why people still try to downplay the win. Or is it just inconceivable that a hick kid from Oklahoma with an obnoxious father could beat an Emmanuel Steward fighter from the fabled Kronk Gym?
THe broadcast never mentions it. I can't find a single article from the fight or anytime after that mentions it. I can't even find a time when Kenty or Steward mention it. Just claims on message boards. Google "Hlimer Kenty Sean O'Grady" and read what Sports Illustrated reported about Sean's loss of the title and you will notice: 1) It recaps the Kenty fight but never mentions Kenty being sick 2) It explains in full the situation behind the Noel-O'Grady fight that never happened: Noel sued everyone and a judge ordered that the O'Grady-Kenty winner had to defend against Noel within 90 days. The O'Grady camp agreed to this, but the judge also ordered that Top Rank was to promote the fight. Sean's father and Bob Arum were feuding at this time and Pat O'Grady balked on Arum promoting his son's fight because he didn't trust Arum (and history would suggest that not trusting Bob "Yesterday I was lying but today I'm telling the truth" Arum was a position with some merit. Noel, while certainly capable and dangerous, wasn't some scary monster -- he had been KOed three times at this point and would be KTFO by the very limited Arturo Frias when he did fight for O'Grady's vacant title. If O'Grady's family was willing to put him in with Danny Lopez when Sean was still learning to shave, willing to fight a rugged Arturo Leon and, most of all, willing to put him in wtih a serious puncher like Andy Gannigan rather than Noel, I'd say they weren't quaking in their boots at the prospect of fighting Noel. If anyone can provide a link to a credible source on Kenty's alleged medical condition at the time, please do so. He had to pass a physical to fight, and I would think it would have been mentioned at the time if he had to be wheeled into the weigh-in on a hospital gurney.
Appreciate the props. Three times in the last couple days, I tried to reply to this acknowledgement of yours, and my regular computer has 'hiccuped' before I was ready to preview and send, losing my previous efforts. This is coming from a different laptop. Meanwhile, Saintpat offered articulate feedback to my first post, some worthwhile dissenting thoughts. You asked about Sean O'Grady, and I hope the discussion in this thread satisfies at least some of that curiosity. I'll not respond to Saintpat here, but instead try to reconstruct my original reply to you [which would have been post #8 without that computer glitch] as best I can. For whatever it's worth, I do think Pat considerably surpassed Gregorio Benitez, Jack Quarry and Tony Ayala, Sr. as a boxing dad. If he screwed his son out of the WBA Title and ESPN gig, neither did he throw his son to the wolves or let Sean get taken advantage of. Sean was such a nice young kid, and such a fine gentleman today that he may well have needed somebody like father Pat to play the bad cop, so he could concentrate on what he was doing as an athlete and commentator. Before Sean ever became a title challenger, he'd already been set up with what would become his true career. To the extent Pat was responsible for arranging that opportunity, he deserves full credit. Sean ultimately went right where Jerry Quarry went wrong, eventually able to move from ESPN to the USA Network, and become securely established in boxing broadcasting. Jerry should have been set for decades at CBS [assuming the fatal damage hadn't already been done to his brain before he started with CBS]. Yes, Pat went overboard pushing on behalf of his son, but Sean may well be better off today because of it. [I also wonder if Pat fully understood his son's true capabilities and limitations as a boxer.] I think Pat and Jean truly were looking out for his interests in a way that Ayala, Sr., Jack Quarry and Gregorio Benitez were not looking out for their sons. Sean is not dead, incarcerated or incapacitated today, but a fine person who has been constructively productive since the 1970s. If Pat and Jean weren't the greatest parents, they certainly were far from the worst. They didn't bleed him dry for their exclusive personal financial gain, or relive their youths vicariously through him at the expense of his health. Unlike Torito, El Radar and the Bellflower Bomber, they left the Bubblegum Bomber with a future beyond his athletic career by the time Pat died. An excellent student academically, I think he did his best mic work during his boxing career, and when he was closer to the conclusion of that career against Verderosa, when his own reality of training and competition was freshest. I actually first saw him on television in an ESPN blazer working with Sal Marciano, then later viewed him in competition for the first time on an ESPN bout himself. Previously, I'd been aware of Sean, but the nascent Top Rank Boxing telecasts on ESPN exposed him to an audience which hadn't seen him before, and it was as an analyst, not a competitor. With Manny Steward now gone, Hilmer himself might be the best one to ask this about. Going in, I think Kenty and Steward genuinely believed Hilmer was superior to Watt, even if ill. Kenty was much faster and taller than Jim, and it was a golden opportunity to outshine the Scot as boxing's premiere lightweight with Arguello coming up to challenge at 135. Considering how quickly Sean himself was stripped, it retroactively seems like it could have been a legitimate concern for Steward and Kenty as well. Even if Hilmer wasn't sick, Pat and Sean had a good plan for dealing with him. Steward changed Kenty's style for his title run by converting him from a cutie to a hand speed based attacker, relying on his height, reach and speed to surprise and overwhelm much harder punchers than himself. It's how he dethroned the lethal hooking Ernesto Espana to bring the LW Title back to the United States for the first time since Old Bones Brown lost it to Carlos Ortiz 18 years earlier. As Sean told broadcast partner Marciano after the bout, he wanted to demonstrate to Kenty "that I could hit a little" in decking him with that body shot, while mentioning the frequency with which he discussed the value of body punching with Sal during their ESPN broadcasts. With or without pneumonia, it would have been a challenge for Kenty to revert to cutie mode over the latter half of their match after getting dropped with that torso shot. Sean played the cutie during much of his challenge of Watt [before he cut Jim, and again after Watt butted him], so he certainly understood that style if Hilmer tried reverting to it himself. Kenty and O'Grady could have made for a fine rivalry, career defining for both, if Sean had gotten past an inaugural defense against Noel, and Kenty could have gotten back on the horse promptly. [Hilmer was subsequently out of commission for 14 months after O'Grady, due in part to a detached retina, one element of a deteriorating relationship with Steward and Kronk. Manny has also been blamed for the conversion of Kenty to a stalker, but I don't fault him for that, as it brought Hilmer the championship.] The birthplace of Max Baer and residence of Ron Stander certainly does have something of a pugilistic past, but it would require a promoter with some sense of interest and commitment to revive boxing as you would like it to be restored there. [Meanwhile, you may just have to settle for watching replays of Frazier-Stander for the World Heavyweight Championship from Omaha's Civic Center. Ron certainly did raise some hell in Omaha during the early 1970s.] Not the quality reconstruction of those lost replies I tried answering you with earlier, but it will have to suffice. More important that I at least succeed in answering your response to my earlier post here.
Still not sold on the walking pneumonia (or the boogie woogie flu), but very nice and well-reasoned post. I agree with the double-edged sword of the father's influence and with your assesment of young Sean's game plan vs. Hilmer. That fight is a beauty to watch unfold even today in hindsight.