It's clear to see who has the better resume. A lot of posters use to say Floyd had 'success in more weights'; no longer true (though even that was a pisstake with the amount of weight there are nowadays and the opponents he fought at those weights, only Diaz was a gimme for Pac) and that he 'always wins wide decisions' or 'schools' his opponents. How is 'schooling' someone by fighting on the backfoot with a low workrate more impressive then winning nearly all the rounds by taking the fight to your opponent. Some will say 'different styles' but Floyd is not a brilliant exponent of the backfoot style; there have been many 'pure boxers' who fight with more vigour and less safety, and against far more impressive opposition. Floyd makes Marquez come up in weight; still comes in over. Wins a wide decision poncing about. Pac makes Margo come down 4 lbs, but comes in a division lower and was outweighed by AT LEAST a stone. Beats the **** out of him, and shows his durability by coming back from some bad moments. Pac has fought better opposition, and beat them more impressively. Does anyone think Pac would not do as good/better against the Welterweight fighters that Floyd faced: Baldomir, Judah, Hatton, Shane? Against those versions? In term of styles; Floyd has the ability to punch through Pacs flurries; that will see him score. But the power to constantly dissuade him/stop him? No chance IMO. Floyd has shown a radar-like defence; against straight-on fighters with little offensive variety. Pac comes in at all angles, is a southpaw, is durable and fights at a very high pace, a pace that Floyd has demonstrated only once in recent years, against Shane. The whole 'he'll do it when he needs to' is even firmer proof against his greatness rather for it. I am a fan who rates fighters based on who they've beaten, how they've done, NEVER on bias (a fighters peronality, out of ring reputation means zilch to me) so, to all those who think Floyd is A) a 'greater' fighter B) will beat Pac (by schooling if you like) please explain why.
Very good point you make flea. If they fight I cant see any outcome other than a pac win. why you may ask, floyd cant shoulder roll for 36 mins and pop infrequent jabs and expect to beat possibly the greatest fighter off the last 15 years. We know pac can take any punch mayweather throws but can mayweather take what pac throws??? I believe pac will flurry the **** out of floyd, he will burst summat like an 8 punch combos and spin off and throw 8 punches again and again for the whole 12 rounds. Floyd will block many shots and what not but he will get hit and he will get rocked at some point. The argument i am making is not whether or not pac will win, but how will floyd win, i find it hard to believe a fighter can win a fight if he just defends for the whole fight. No aggression and hardly any workrate, where as pac is the total opposite. Floyd loses everyday of the week imho, and he knows it and so does his dad and his uncle...
:deal Exactly what I'm saying. Of course everyone just calls me a 'hater' There is little argument. Of course he'll have some success; he has a nice jab, but not consistent enough. He can land through other fighters assaults, which is the only way to hit Pac hard (unless he invites you to, like he did against Clottey and Margo) but has only displayed this against fighters who comes at straight lines, with nowhere near as fast hands/angles/workrate/stamina. Floyd likes to hold on/shove the elbow in and push his opponents back when he can't dictate with his jab, when has Pac been outmuscled as of late?
That is down to the fact they cannot give you any solid reason for disagreeing to your statement. Floyd is a tremendous talent no doubt, but pac wins everyday of the week for me...
Oh dear i think floyd wins but for a more in depth analysis and explanation i need to do some research :think I do think pac has the better resume as they stand though by far and if they were to retire today I think Pacs will stand up to much more scrutiny over the next 20-30 years whereas Floyds will be picked apart When i have a bit more time i will come back to this thread
A few months ago this thread would have been at least 3 pages long by now explaining how Mayweather is better :think
Yeah, but this one is posted in the British forum. Put this on general and we'd be on page seven by now.
i used to believe floyd would win if they fought, but now i think pacquiao would win with his workrate and power being very important in that win. floyd doesn't fight enough, so his chances added with age only gives pacquiao more chance in beating him. floyd is like a semi retired boxer, and pacquiao is one fighter you don't want to fight against when you're semi retired.
He isn't, so I can't. The Cotto beat down was when I changed my pick to Manny, the Clottey/Margo fights have reinforced my opinion. Mayweather is brilliant, Pac is a level above.
I am a massive Mayweather fan but I don't think anyone can doubt that Pacquiao's record and legacy is ahead of Mayweather at this stage of his career. I agree with allot of what your saying Flea but I don't think Floyd's achievements should be downplayed to boost his nearest rivals. Both have had phenomenal careers and Pacquiao's is just better. I don't think the whole weight and catch weight stuff is as much as an issue as you think. I could bring up Manny bringing down Cotto and De La Hoya down. Also ask yourself what weight did Baldomir, Hatton, Mosley come in at on fight night. As much as people say Manny is not at his natural weight, I don't think Mayweather is either. In terms of the actual fight I still think Mayweather will win. When they first started talking about it properly and negotiated after the Cotto fight I was 75-25 thinking Mayweather would win. I am now 60-40 for Mayweather. One thing we have in this fight is an unknown. We have no clue how Pacquiao will do against a fighter with a top class defence. Not just top class, but one of the best in the history of the sport. Look at Pacquiao's record since the Erik Morales defeat, his last loss in 2005. Has he faced anyone like Mayweather, no, infact he hasn't faced anyone that wasn't a come forward aggressive fighter. All aggressive come forward latin fighters with no real defence, with the exception Hatton who fights like a Mexican and Clottey who really came to survive. I am not saying for one minute that Pacquiao has avoided fights with slicker fighters with great defence, as other than Floyd there hasn't been a call for him to face one. Pacquiao's key strengths are his speed, movement, aggression and power. We haven't seen Mayweather fight someone that offers all of these but we have seen him against a fighters that that have 1, 2 or 3 of them. Judah not as quick as Manny but at the time was up there as one of the fastest fighters in the world. Gave Floyd trouble by matching him for hand and foot speed in the early rounds, but Floyd adapted and dominated the later rounds. Corales, Mosley, Castollo, Gatti, DLH all big punchers. Floyd has been hit before but he has always stood up to it. When hurt he recoevers quickly and has the ability to not get hurt again and regain control of the action. He has faced allot of aggressive fighters. Castillo had the most success, many think he won their first fight, but Mayweather dominated the 2nd fight and it was 8 years and 13 fights ago. He has also never had a problem with southpaws. Now none of the guys I have mentioned are as good and Manny Pacquiao, but nobody on Pacquiao resume is as good as Mayweather, and none of the represent anything close to the Mayweather style. What happens when he misses with every shot in a 5 shot combo? What happens when he is beaten to the jab? What happens when he is matched for speed and mobility around the ring? What happens when he is frustrated at being unable to land his shots and start to take more and more risks? We have seen Mayweathers opponents fall for the traps, and Pacquiao has never shown an ability to solve that puzzle because all of his opponents stand in front off him, trade and are easy to hit. All we have to go on with this fight is what we have seen in similar style match ups. Mayweather has those and come through. Pacquiao has not. Also when you look through the history of boxing, every generation there is a furious puncher who blows everyone away with his aggression, but always comes unstuck against the Slick boxer.