Tell me why Floyd is better than Pac

Discussion in 'British Boxing Forum' started by Flea Man, Nov 15, 2010.

  1. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล

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    I have him just outside the top 30 at the moment. A win over Floyd would probably see him breach the top 20. An old-timers resume so far, for sure.
     
  2. KingCobra

    KingCobra IBF World Champion Full Member

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    He isn't better and he isn't prepared to prove conclusively he isn't better. FFS Hatton was doing ok against Floyd till he walked into that check hook. Pac would swarm him, throw punches from all angles and Floyd would not be able to cope with the pressure. Pac wouldn't show any mercy this time either, PBF would get KTFO.
     
  3. KingCobra

    KingCobra IBF World Champion Full Member

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    Pac is an amazing fighter, a once in a generation fighter. Floyd is the only opposition who has a chance of measuring up and if he ducks the challenge then, for me, Pac should and will be accorded the win by default.
     
  4. gooners!!

    gooners!! Boxing Junkie banned

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    I have always saw Marquez as a defensive fighter more than an offensive fighter, now I know he lacks a defense to be called a defensive fighter, but he's generally sat back and tried to counter the opponents offense, which is why I would describe him as a defensive fighter rather than on offensive fighter. Marquez tends to exist off the offense of the opponent, although I take the point, later in his career he has become somewhat more aggressive, that said, I felt he was made to pay for being more offensive in the rematch(Pac 2), that is how he got dropped imo, and that he had his best success, when he went back to waiting to counter Manny on the way in.

    I do think Floyd will get painted by Pac if he stands still.



    I think all that would do in the worse case scenario, is make the fight slightly closer, but I anticipate that a fresh Mayweather using his legs early, counter punching Manny on the way in, will put a dent in that activity, and that he will take enough early rounds whilst fresh, then squeeze out any late rounds he might need, to take a decision if Manny does have a degree of success in the middle portion of the fight due to Manny forcing Floyd to move, punch more than he would like.


    I dont like Mayweather, but I think you seriously underrate him Flea Man.
     
  5. Bing

    Bing Active Member Full Member

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    You could turn this round and say the same thing about pacs recent opposition. They both havent fought anyone like each other thats what makes the fight so intriguing. What will your take on Mayweather be if he comprehensively beats pac?
     
  6. Lilo

    Lilo Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It really is amazing how our opinions alter so dramatically immediately after a fight. Now I lean towards Pac. After Mosley there was no way Pac could win etc.

    Pac biggest trouble came from JMM - Floyd is similar to JMM but bigger, better and has more ring intelligence.

    Floyd SD
     
  7. TFFP

    TFFP The Eskimo

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    It's scary how complete the current Manny Pacquiao is. He's probably a more consistent right jab away from being close to Roberto Duran for all-round fighting ability.

    He can keep the pressure on, he can relent and pick his spots, he has this new found uncanny ability to counterpunch, there probably isn't an angle in existence he hasn't nailed offensively. Okay so he isn't great inside preferring to block or move away but anyone that wants to force Pacquiao into a phone booth is going to have to go through hell and back to get there so its not a huge issue. The only thing he's got left to prove he's truely in the top echelon of greats is that transition game Roberto had. Can he put Mayweather under pressure when Floyd is laying traps and not staying there for him?

    Flea does make a valid point about the old shoulder roll though. Might not neccessarily be a help. Floyd has that tendency to shoulder roll and stick around posing. If anyone can find angles and holes in that armoury its Pacquiao, and whats Mayweather do when its not 1 or 2 punches coming its 3, 4, 5 and 6 punch combinations? It's going to be much more difficult to readjust his defensive posture for each punch.
     
  8. teeto

    teeto Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Do you think his quality is as good as Duran's though? I'm a person that rates effectiveness, so quality of punches etc doesn't factor too high on my agenda when rating a fighter, if they win they win, and i give them credit. Pacquiao's footwork has definitely improved, his achievements are great, his tempo is high, he punches with authority, and he throws punches in bunches, basic combos but combos nonetheless. I give him all the credit due to him so i'm not detracting from him. But looking at Duran's outright ability and quality, and looking at Pac's respective quality, they don't look on the same level to me. Just purely on a 'who is the better fighter' basis, not who is greater. Look at Duran's feinting, defense, defense on offense, he's even better than Tyson with that. Look at his combos, head movement, variety of shots. His toolbox to go all out working with looks vastly superior to me. Maybe it's just me.
     
  9. gooners!!

    gooners!! Boxing Junkie banned

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    Worst type of opponent to give a stationary target to, is a volume punching lefty with fast hands, which is probably why Calzaghe was so good when he opened up, when he had someone on the ropes, they are use to bending a certain way to avoid punches, which is essentially bending into the power hand of a southpaw, but as you say, you might evade 1 or 2, but 3/4's, at speed?
     
  10. TFFP

    TFFP The Eskimo

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    As I said he does not have a jab like Duran did which hurts his outgame in comparisons with Duran. He's improved that jab a heap but still, its not authoritative and is too often a range finder.

    He doesn't have the transition game Duran did either as I touched on briefly. As far as moving his head although he does he's not as consistent as Duran with it, his footwork isn't quite as certain and he doesn't have the subtlety of faints. Hence why Mayweather would be a very interesting test of Pacquiao's skills here, has he also improved this since JMM? He's improved everything else recently...

    Course he doesn't have the ability in close.

    So overall you're right he's not the same quality all-round but nobody really is. Pacquiao's a step or two short in most departments but he's at least in the ballpark whereas nobody else of recent years springs to mind as an all-round battler. Duran was the best all-rounder I've ever seen, not the greatest fighter but the best all-rounder.
     
  11. teeto

    teeto Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    :good

    I must say, for me the technical improvements in Pacquiao are potentially exaggerated. Not by yourself, but generally. I like how he now pivots on his heels and uses it to counter with hard right hooks. That is definitely great, but on the whole, he has looked fantastic against fighters who are larger than him in his latest fights, but they're all heavily flawed technically. The best technically was Cotto and we all know his weaknesses are suited to Pacquiao's physical attributes. I'm not taking away from Pac's wins, he earned all them w's on his record and they're good/great wins on the whole. But this technical improvement is something i'm not completely sold on, not at all actually. For me his major strengths are his immense physical gifts- speed, strength etc etc. He's a ****ing monster in the physically imposing sense.

    I just think Mayweather will beat him relatively comfortably, i can't deny it. Maybe i'll be proven wrong, but i'm willing to go on the line with it now.
     
  12. gooners!!

    gooners!! Boxing Junkie banned

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    His improvements are definitely overstated, people forget that the Marquez rematch was not that long ago, 08 to be precise, that when Cotto took the centre ring, waited on him, counter punched him from there, that he had success, its just that Pac was able to break up that rhythm and that Cotto is prone to getting embroiled in a fire a fight.


    Aggressive fighters are tailor made for Pac's sharp shooting style and quick feet, but he needs to show that he can take the lead, cut the ring down, set up his own offense, and beat a top echelon fighter with that style.
     
  13. teeto

    teeto Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Well there you have it.
     
  14. shaunster101

    shaunster101 Yido Full Member

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    You obviously can't read much into this, but someone posted these in the General. You can't underestimate the southpaw factor when these two meet.

    This content is protected


    This content is protected
     
  15. kerrminator

    kerrminator Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I'll also go on record saying Floyd beats Pac fairly comfortably if they meet. Both are good fighters but PBF is a boxer too and has far too much in his arsenal.

    The catchweaights kinda tarnish Pacs resume of late too. I dont understand why the 154 title cannot be fought for at 154. The whole thing about proving how great you are by going up in weight has its purpose defeated if your making your opponent come in drained and preventing him from weighing the weight that is stated in the rules (the same rules pac was crowing about when Floyd wanted the blood tests).

    Hope it happens and cant see Pac causing Floyd too much trouble from round 3 onwards (thats how long he''l take to adapt to the flurries imo :)