Tell me why Floyd is better than Pac

Discussion in 'British Boxing Forum' started by Flea Man, Nov 15, 2010.

  1. teeto

    teeto Obsessed with Boxing banned

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2007
    Messages:
    28,075
    Likes Received:
    57
    Is anyone optimistic the fight will happen next? I'm not really up on my boxing politics right now so i'm not sure where it's at. I haven't heard anything regarding developments though.
     
  2. ed7890

    ed7890 Col. Hunter Gathers Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2009
    Messages:
    8,170
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't know, I'd be a small bit hopeful. First it's just such a money-spinning fight, maybe a 100 million purse, that it's just gotta happen. Even if Floyd is worried about losing and his legacy or whatever, would he risk it for 50 million. That's a lot of money to console yourself with.

    Also, I remember after the Hatton fight, when this was talked about first, somebody on the General was saying that Pacman was going to end up fight all the Top Rank fighters first anyway. Now after Cotto -> Clottey -> Margarito I'm starting to wonder if this wasn't the plan all along. To talk about it, let it keep getting put off for another TR fight, and then eventually face either other for a huge fight.

    Maybe.
     
  3. wrimc

    wrimc Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2009
    Messages:
    10,495
    Likes Received:
    3
    In terms of IF i just dont really know where is left for each fighter to go Manny has more options than Floyd he could probably take on Mosley and stop him or possibly martinex Wiliams winner.

    Floyd on the other hand wont fight Cotto or Marg as Pac beat them and there arent many big paydays out there for him unless he waits for a Bradley Alexander Khan winner in a year and they are somehow a big draw/star i think probably only Khan can reach that "star" level and he will handle them but where does he go?
     
  4. gooners!!

    gooners!! Boxing Junkie banned

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2009
    Messages:
    10,166
    Likes Received:
    1



    I dont give Mayweather as much credit for adapting against Oscar cause I dont know as he did anything extraordinary to neutralize Oscar. Oscar has never been a consistent fighter. What I mean by that, is that he does not stay focused for the whole fight, execute the same strategy consistently throughout the fight. Remember Oscar against Quartey? he looked dejected, as though he was in trance at times in that corner, only look at the finish he had.

    I think Oscar is prone to falling asleep behind the wheel, which is what I believe happened against Mayweather.

    Mayweather has a habbit of resetting you, then when he has you following him (beit right or left), has got you dancing to his tune, he will leap in when he has you in transition, after he has just reset you and your moving back the other way to catch up with him, which is why Corrales got hit with so many lead left hooks, he let Mayweather reset him, then when Mayweather had him dancing to his tune, he would throw when Corrales was in transition.

    I give Mayweather a degree of props for adapting against Oscar, but it coincided with Oscar lapse in concentration imo. Oscar fell into his robotic stalker mode and switched off, Floyd used more movement cause Oscar was having so much success, and Oscar lost his grip on the fight, Mayweather gained a grip on the fight, and was able to get more done offensively because Oscar was allowing him to reset him.

    Also, I went back and watched this fight not so long back, and I dont even think Oscar used the jab that much to be honest, although I have to say, when he did, it was clearly effective, that said, how much harder is to jab when your target uses more lateral movement, especially when you fall into a trance?


    If you watch the last couple of rounds of that fight, all Oscar is doing, is looking for the big left hook, its as though he has abandoned his tactics, as though he felt he was behind so resorts to looking for the big left, which was stupid when you think about it, cause he needed a share of those last few rounds, which I gave to Mayweather, only I felt Oscar did win the last round.
     
  5. AndrewFFC

    AndrewFFC Well-Known Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,501
    Likes Received:
    3

    He will take one to give one. He may be a counter puncher like Mayweather but he isnt averse to trading.

    I think to beat Pacman you cannot just be a defensive dunce, it didn't work for Clottey and it wont work for Mayweather. The question for me lies in whether Mayweather has the heart for a fight. A proper fight.
     
  6. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2008
    Messages:
    82,426
    Likes Received:
    1,478
    Teeto, you know that I respect your opinion as much as anybodys. I'm not saying for a secondthat you cannot be an ATG by 'running' (though Floyd could hardly be described as that) only that, when you're debating who was the greater, and you get to two fighters who are close in terms of resume, you then see who dealt with their opponent more impressively; IMO, I have been left deflated by Floyd on numerous occassions post-130lbs, and that is why I do not hold him on the pedestal that many others do.
     
  7. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2008
    Messages:
    82,426
    Likes Received:
    1,478
    :happy Didnt see this efore I posted, this is exactly where I'm coming from pal.
     
  8. TFFP

    TFFP The Eskimo

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    45,002
    Likes Received:
    4
    What's with the avatar, Flea?
     
  9. gooners!!

    gooners!! Boxing Junkie banned

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2009
    Messages:
    10,166
    Likes Received:
    1

    I guess its like Whitaker, if you watch Whitakers biggest fights, Nelson, ODLH, Chavez, he essentially fought from long range, which is why I think some view him as a runner, cause the first thing you do when getting to know a particular fighter you haven't seen much of, is to watch his biggest fights, now if you dont like what you see in those fights, you most probably aren't going to go and watch him beating the brakes off Haugen, schooling Ramirez 2, Cordona, Brazier, staying inside with a big puncher like Roger Mayweather and banging it out.

    Certain fights call for certain types of strategies, strategies that might not be aesthetically pleasing on the eye, but strategies you need to employ to win, although I take the point if you say, well he still hasn't showed me anything asesthetically pleasing post 130 that makes me think its just about adapting a particular strategy in certain fights to win.

    I always refer to the Jesus Chavez fight, now if you watch that fight, Mayweather could not decide what to do early on, whether to get on his bike, or stay inside, yet when he tried to stay inside, he couldn't, simply because it was too hot in their for him. I think there are only certain fighters you can stand infront of, in the pocket, and they usually aint top elite fighters, which is why it would not be advisable for someone as skilled as Whitaker, to stand infront of someone like Nelson or Chavez.
     
  10. teeto

    teeto Obsessed with Boxing banned

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2007
    Messages:
    28,075
    Likes Received:
    57
    Nobody minds getting hit, the best counterpunchers make you miss to punish you, not ship punches to do so.
     
  11. teeto

    teeto Obsessed with Boxing banned

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2007
    Messages:
    28,075
    Likes Received:
    57

    :good
     
  12. Scotty321

    Scotty321 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2008
    Messages:
    12,516
    Likes Received:
    0
    The only thing that is certain, is that if Pac wins, Floyd becomes "past his prime" at the time.
     
  13. NO MAS

    NO MAS Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2009
    Messages:
    9,784
    Likes Received:
    1
    What makes him that one notch louder for me is what he does with his feet and mind...an open fighter like Pac Man is so made for PBF...Pac Man is very open come forward fighter...PBF will expolit that...:yep

    If Pac Man fights PBF on the back foot, he will still get countered as he will not be able to get his 3-5 punch combos off because PBF just wont be there...:yep

    PBF boxed Hatton into a daze...Where Pac Man exploited his aggresion with an early heavy concusive KO...:yep

    2 different styles with 2 similar endings, with the exception of Hatton been iced twice but giving PBF by his own admission the hardest fight of his life...:yep

    It aint PBF's hands that take him one notch louder for me, its his feet and mental strength that will see him through this...:yep

    He will take away Pac Man's ability to get his shots off and make Pac Man fight his fight, once he excecutes this plan, he will end the fight at his leisure... :yep

    A UD or stoppage in the Championship Rounds for PBF...:deal
     
  14. teeto

    teeto Obsessed with Boxing banned

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2007
    Messages:
    28,075
    Likes Received:
    57
    I just don't rate Oscar at the highest level, we can call it inconsistency, or we can say that his stamina issues are a part of his make-up as a fighter.

    I tend to give full credit to the winner of the fight, as with every fight. I'm not a big fan of the 'Duran beat Leonard because Leonard fought wrong', or 'Leonard beat Duran because Duran trained ****', both guys worked the hard and earned their wins, full credit to them in regards to their respective nights of glory

    Yeah, 'twas very nice indeed

    Like i said, that's just Oscar for me, it's happened before, i don't see it as Oscar could have won and should have. I'd bet every time they fight in ten tries that Mayweather would win, and the same thing might happen every time. I think Mayweather can adapt mid-fight. He did it against Zab Judah, you can use the same argument and say that Judah is only good in the first half, but if Mayweather wouldn't have gotten physical then he would have carried on being outsped, you have to weigh up the factors. I give credit to Floyd, but of course the circumstances surrounding his opponent made things easier than say if he was fighting a Rodriguez, who would box and fight beautifully til the end.



    I thought Oscar was using his jab effectively around the first half of the fight. At that time, Floyd was winning fights a lot by backing up to the ropes and covering up. He did this and Oscar was doing quite well. So Floyd started to step into the middle of the ring, and counter the jab with authoritative right hands to the point where Oscar was worried to throw it. That's how i saw it anyway. You've got to understand that fighters don't just not throw punches, they're professionals, and champions even. People said Mosley gassed after round two against Floyd, yeah right. Mosley is throwing hell at Floyd in round two, then he just gasses? It's embarrassing. Floyd stood there and walked him down, letting Mosley know that if he came to trade he was gunna get punished. Mosley was not in his prime, he hadn't been for years, but there's no way he gassed. He got outclassed, that's all.
     
  15. NO MAS

    NO MAS Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2009
    Messages:
    9,784
    Likes Received:
    1
    The Hatton fight was a real exception, that was a devastating KO, based around Hatton's predictive coming forward and swinging...:yep

    PBF will not give Pac Man the time nor the room to get his combos off...:yep

    PBF is very very strong and I think he would be crazy to fight PBF on the inside, if he does he will get stopped early on...:yep

    You are spot on I fully agree with you that Pac Man is far to open for PBF...:deal