The Gods of War

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Stonehands89, Dec 16, 2009.


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  1. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    If Williams gets a 22 for experience, who the hell gets a 24 or 25? How does Burley outrank him in that regard? I'd say he was just about as experienced against top flight opposition as any other fighter you could name.
     
    Sweet Pea, Dec 21, 2009
    Sweet Pea, Dec 21, 2009
    #31
  2. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I'd give the edge to Burley. Look at their records...

    A good way to do this, is to find a gold standard and measure everyone else by that. Archie Moore. He'd get a 25. Williams isn't near Moore in terms of experience.
     
    Stonehands89, Dec 21, 2009
    Stonehands89, Dec 21, 2009
    #32
  3. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    I have to disagree. Williams's record is actually a good deal more stacked than Burley's, and on par with Moore's as well. Not to mention Burley and Williams's series was dead even and he and Moore split their two fights together. He defeated the entire Murderer's Row multiple times. His resume is absolutely stacked.
     
    Sweet Pea, Dec 21, 2009
    Sweet Pea, Dec 21, 2009
    #33
  4. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Williams went 13-14-4-1 against Lytell, Booker, Burley, Marshall, Chase, Wade, and Lytell. Burley went 10-5-1-1. That includes Cocoa Kid... his record against Cocoa Kid was 3-8-2.

    Against Burley, he went 3-3-1, but Burley holds the a TKO over him. No one holds a TKO against Burley. Williams fought no one who dramatically outsized him. He was dead even with Eddie Booker.

    He's got...
    Murderers' Row
    LaMotta
    Steve Belloise
    Jose Basora
    Moore
    Cerdan

    Burley...
    Murderer's Row (except Booker)
    Charles
    Zivic
    Soose
    Abrams
    Moore
    both Hogue Brothers
    Bivins
    Nate Bolden

    Archie Moore?
    Murderers' Row
    Bivins
    Charles
    Maxim
    both Hogue bros.
    Harold Johnson
    Nino Valdes
    Marciano
    Floyd Patterson
    Pastrano
    Ali

    ...Moore also holds more knockouts than even Burley against those major figures of Murderers' Row. He's got four... no one else has more than 1. Moore's record against them is 10-5-3.

    Moore blows both of them away. Burley is in my opinion more stacked, though it is more arguable. It isn't arguable between Moore and Williams, though.
     
    Stonehands89, Dec 21, 2009
    Stonehands89, Dec 21, 2009
    #34
  5. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    If you're including guys like Soose, Bolden, and Big Boy Hogue, you'd have to include guys like Satterfield, Tunero, Burke, Jannazzo, etc. for Williams.

    The only member he held a losing record against among the Row was Cocoa Kid. Excluding him, the numbers are a lot better in his favor. He was 13-7-2-1 against the crew you mentioned outside of Kid (2 of those coming to Lytell when past his prime). He also beat another Row member in Joe Carter at least 4 times.
     
    Sweet Pea, Dec 21, 2009
    Sweet Pea, Dec 21, 2009
    #35
  6. john garfield

    john garfield Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    NO WAY! He didn't go for spit -- never picked up a check.
     
    john garfield, Dec 21, 2009
    john garfield, Dec 21, 2009
    #36
  7. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    sorry, what threw me was McGrain asking for a scorecard for Williams and me being half asleep at the time thought he meant Burley vs Williams :patsch:patsch
     
    GPater11093, Dec 22, 2009
    GPater11093, Dec 22, 2009
    #37
  8. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The ranks of Murderers Row are malleable... but irregardless, we agree that Holman was great. I'd edge Burley slightly in terms of resume, but Moore is off the charts.
     
    Stonehands89, Dec 22, 2009
    Stonehands89, Dec 22, 2009
    #38
  9. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    How could he? Weren't you baby-sitting him? Wasn't it sometime in the 20s when you were 41 or so?
     
    Stonehands89, Dec 22, 2009
    Stonehands89, Dec 22, 2009
    #39
  10. john garfield

    john garfield Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    malicious rumor spread by fitzsimmons...couldna been more than 37.
     
    john garfield, Dec 22, 2009
    john garfield, Dec 22, 2009
    #40
  11. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ha. Beautiful.
     
    Stonehands89, Dec 22, 2009
    Stonehands89, Dec 22, 2009
    #41
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    01
    02
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    04
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    10 - Charley Burley

    I mean any list that you kick off with Burley is going to be very interesting. I think that aside from you i'm the only guy on the forum that's consistantly had Burley in the twenty, but he's never clambered into my ten. Will be interesting to see who ends up where. This ranking means all bets are off as far as this list goes.
     
    McGrain, Dec 22, 2009
    McGrain, Dec 22, 2009
    #42
  13. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Burley's making it into the top ten surprised me. Especially considering who he bumped to #11. When I did the article, I thought it would be important to pay tribute to other members of that feared group. Burley is the only one without a crown.
     
    Stonehands89, Dec 22, 2009
    Stonehands89, Dec 22, 2009
    #43
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    When is the next installment?
     
    McGrain, Dec 22, 2009
    McGrain, Dec 22, 2009
    #44
  15. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    They're all done. Now it's just a matter of timing them right. I'm thinking Christmas Eve.

    I am considering Monday and Thursday to march them in, but if there are alot of comments, it may be wiser to stall them. I'll probably play it by ear.
     
    Stonehands89, Dec 22, 2009
    Stonehands89, Dec 22, 2009
    #45
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