The Guy's Rocky Beats & Those He Doesn't

He was 5”9 and a half and he weighed under 210
At times. He probably weighs exactly what Marciano would weigh today. Just as fighters now would weigh less pre 70/80s when they started weight lifting and gaining functional mass. The point is men of similar height and reach competed through out the years. Tua, Frazier, Tyson, Toney, Norris, Qawi, Chagaev. Even if Marcianos reach was an inch or two off that’s not a determining factor. Marcianos reach was always smaller then his opponents. And he was generally out weighed. He didn’t manage to beat four hall of famers by luck. Even older they were all still dangerous (as anyone can see by looking at old lion v young one fights it’s split pretty evenly). Also Marciano was 11-0 with 11 knock outs of men over 200 plus pounds. Weight obviously wasn’t a factor nor would it be especially in today’s era where gaining functional mass is rather easy .soooo we have to rely on other more important factors. Defense. Marcianos defense was excellent. Stamina. One of the best. Power? Had it in both hands. Style? People underrate style in H2h so much it’s painful. That’s why I don’t think someone like Jimmy Bivins would dare well against the taller HWs today as compared to someone Like Marciano. Styles matter. Marciano fought small he used it to his advantage just as Frazier and Tyson did so well (albeit differently). That style would be no less affective today as compared to some other smaller fighters of the past.

 

Off all those listed:

He beats Corbett, Fitz, Hart, Burns, and Braddock with no problems.

He most likely beats Carnera, Patterson, Sharkey, Willard, Ingo, and both Spinks but their are reservations with those picks.

Something tells me Baer beats him in a horrible stylistic match-up but I'm for obvious reasons not confident about this pick.

He rather convincingly loses to Frazier, Bowe, Douglas, Holy, but he has an outside chance of turning in an upset.

He gets absolutely demolished against, Johnson, Dempsey, Louis, Liston, Ali, Holmes, Foreman, both Tysons, Lewis and the Klitschkos. He simply won't "find a way" as many here put forth as a copout when their's no reasonable argument to be made on his behalf

 

OK, a couple of observations.

The average Ring Magazine ranking of Marciano's title challengers was 1.17, and he defeated them all.

Hard to ask much more from him given what was around.

Now weak eras are ten a penny, and even in weak eras, the best should be able to manage some sort of resistance.

The other great heavyweights, typically lost to men who would not necessarily have been the best that Marciano had faced.

What we are looking at, is a man with a very high level of consistency, and very failsafe attributes.

Not so much a skill deficit, as a highly effective swarmer, who got you one way or another.

I think that today, a lot of people don't see the elephant in the room with this man!

 

Thank you for understanding my point

 

Michael would school him, and Leon could prove more than a handful himself.

 

I think Rocky would out-tough Quarry in rounds 6-7

I don't see Patterson doing well with the firepower of Rocky but I'm sure he'd give Rocky a tough time for a few rounds.

Chris Byrd is an interesting one, I could see them splitting wins against eachother to be honest.

 

Jesus

 

After four years as a heavyweight (who weighted up to 227 and beating page, Snipes etc) Norris dropped to 188lb, Marcianos weight, to compete as a cruiser.

That’s still a very good resume. And You forgot Oliver McCall and Tony Tucker. Norris beat Tony Tucker twice and got the decision over him once.

Orlin weighed 246 against Brian Neilson. Then in his very last fight aged 39 he weighed 196lb which was heavier than 188lb he was during previous cruiserweight days but still lighter than his debut weight of 199lb some 19 years earlier aged 20 years old. At HW Orlin often fought between 212-230.

It seems to me guys Marcianos size could weighh whatever they wanted in a different era.

 

You make it sound like Norris had not already beaten Oliver McCall.

Orlin beat Tucker just as convincingly the first time they met when Tucker was 40-1 and had won his last 6 fights by Kayo. Orlin was still giving away 20lb and 12” reach to Tony who was gifted an outrageous decision and would meet Lenox Lewis in his next fight.

Orlin realised his face didn’t fit and probably dropped down to Cruiserweight out of pure disgust for the political situation that led to Tucker getting that decision.

 

Apparently you missed the rest of the post about gaining functional weight as a no factor now adays. Do you want really think Muhammad Ali would go into a ring today weighing 215 pounds? Or Marciano 188? Or Dempsey 195? No. Louis 195? That’s absurd. Like Holyfield they would gain functional mass. Weight as far as I’m concerned is a non factor past a certain weight. Hardest I’ve ever been hit was by a guy at 205 and another at 190. Ive sparred men as large as 270. I don’t put as much emphasis on weight as some of you. I look at skill and style. And we don’t bring up Norris because he was some world beater. No no no. He gets brought up like Toney simply for the fact that they beat contenders of the day and were competitive and obviously not as skilled as Marciano was at HW. Toney didn’t have Marcianos power or stamina or strength. Norris didn’t have that great a style his chin wasn’t very good nor was his heart. But somehow this guy was able to beat Tucker, Miller, McCall, Pritchard, Page and a few other ok guys. He was obviously competitive just not against big punchers. Yet we are to believe people like yourself who claim nonstop Marciano would get flattened by these modern behemoths when your only requirement would be he’s too thin. He was naturally 210-215 walk around weight. The man trained down to 185-190. Today or against these big guys he wouldn’t do that nor need to.

 

Ok so you think it’s fantasy that Orlin Norris beat Oliver McCall and Tony Tucker?