The Heavyweight Big Three's ATG Historical Standing

Mendoza · Feb 19, 2019

andrewa1 said: ↑

I mean, you can say that. And Mendoza, I often like your takes. But you don't really have any rationale confronting the rationale I put up.

Empirically, they are there. 20 years from now, they will almost certainly have near consensus regard as being top 30 HW's or better. It always takes awhile for active fighters to get their due, but all the earmarks are there.

If someone disagrees so strongly, they should list the fighters they rank from 20-30. I'd be glad to deconstruct in detail why some of the lower people on that list would rank lower than these three.
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Wilder has no signature wins. He struggled vs. an old Oritz, and was lucky to draw with Fury. Top 30 all time he is not!

Fury? A maybe a best. He beat Wlad at age 39, and who?

AJ, possibly top 30 for now. The Miller fight if he wins it as expected might be his best pure win as Wlad was 41, and Povetkin 39.

andrewa1 · Feb 19, 2019

Mendoza said: ↑

Wilder has no signature wins. He struggled vs. an old Oritz, and was lucky to draw with Fury. Top 30 all time he is not!

Fury? A maybe a best. He beat Wlad at age 39, and who?

AJ, possibly top 30 for now. The Miller fight if he wins it as expected might be his best pure win as Wlad was 41, and Povetkin 39.
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But who would you put over them? Fury's win over Wlad is better than Johannson's win over Patterson, and the rest of his career is at least as good (and realistically, better). If Wilder's draw with Fury isn't as good as Johannson's win over Patterson, he doesn't have two losses like Patterson does, his win over Ortiz is better than anything else Patterson did, win over Stiverne I at least as good as anything else Patterson did, and his 6 other defenses are almost as good as Johannson's 6 best wins after Patterson. I think you can make an argument Johannson still is higher on the ATG list than Wilder, but not by much at all, and it is very very debatable.

They may not seem like top 30 to you, but when you look at the actual list, and balance their respective accomplishments, they clearly are or as close to it as anyone.

Heavy_Hitter · Feb 19, 2019

andrewa1 said: ↑

But who would you put over them? Fury's win over Wlad is better than Johannson's win over Patterson, and the rest of his career is at least as good (and realistically, better). If Wilder's draw with Fury isn't as good as Johannson's win over Patterson, he doesn't have two losses like Patterson does, his win over Ortiz is better than anything else Patterson did, win over Stiverne I at least as good as anything else Patterson did, and his 6 other defenses are almost as good as Johannson's 6 best wins after Patterson. I think you can make an argument Johannson still is higher on the ATG list than Wilder, but not by much at all, and it is very very debatable.

They may not seem like top 30 to you, but when you look at the actual list, and balance their respective accomplishments, they clearly are or as close to it as anyone.
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That's the problem you hype Fury up based on his win over Wlad, but Wlad was a shell of his former self and looked horrid. He struggled vs Jennings who went on to get KOed vs almost everyone he fought including a novice Rivas. He was outboxed in sparring by a muay thai fighter lol. He was done at 40.

surreal deal · Feb 19, 2019

FartWristedBum said: ↑

The argument would go as such: Ali got sparked by Cooper and lost to one-eyed midget Frazier, Louis is famed for fighting bums and never fought a legit super-heavy. AJ was never beat, ergo best ever h2h, #1 ATG #DEAL.

I'm not saying I agree with the above or would agree with it if Wilder or Fury do similar and retire but just making the point that if you're 90% of the way to an arguable top 1-3 ATG placing and still are called a joke, what possible chance does anyone have of getting their due respect?
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I know what you mean and I did a thread on it about 10 years ago; any record can be discredited to the point where we have no genuine ATG's. I recall saying/challenging posters to diminish a fighters resume until he becomes just another fighter. Best wins can be lessened by...he only beat...who only beat..who struggled with...who only beat...who lost to etc; until any legend becomes a plodder. Interesting thought experiment tbh.

Welterschmelter · Feb 20, 2019

andrewa1 said: ↑

If Wilder's draw with Fury isn't as good as Johannson's win over Patterson, he doesn't have two losses like Patterson does, his win over Ortiz is better than anything else Patterson did, win over Stiverne I at least as good as anything else Patterson did, and his 6 other defenses are almost as good as Johannson's 6 best wins after Patterson. .
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Well, there's Patterson's win over Elllis, that was pretty damn good.

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The Heavyweight Big Three's ATG Historical Standing

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