The Heavyweight title Lineage

Discussion in 'British Boxing Forum' started by brown bomber, Jul 22, 2010.

  1. GazOC

    GazOC Guest Star for Team Taff Full Member

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    Its far from ideal and open to other interpretations but thats my take on it as well.
     
  2. Lee Mc

    Lee Mc Boxing Addict banned

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    I agree its not a perfect soloution but it is, in my opinion, the best of the bunch... by some way.
     
  3. Beeston Brawler

    Beeston Brawler Comical Ali-egedly Full Member

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    I find it hard to accept Wlad as ''the man'' even though his brother is #2 and probably the most overrated HW ever.

    Plus his fights :zzz
     
  4. icemax

    icemax Indian Red Full Member

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    You can't change the rules on lineage. If you make the Ring "belt" holder the man then that isn't lineage its just a subjective opinion like everything else, lineage has to be definitive and demonstrable.
     
  5. GazOC

    GazOC Guest Star for Team Taff Full Member

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    Then we'd have to wait for Lewis to comeback and get beat. It won't happen so Wlad (IMHO) should start a new lineage. Like Holmes would have even if he hadn't gotten to beat Ali on his comeback.
     
  6. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    I actually feel Charles became champion after beating Walcott, as there were no other claimants as Louis forfeited his title. Its not all that important just means Ezzard misses out on a few defences to his name.
     
  7. Lee Mc

    Lee Mc Boxing Addict banned

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    Then, according to your criteria, we haven't even had a ligitimate lineal champion since Gene Tunney... (because Jack Johnson still beat Jim Jefferies who, of course, retired as Champion)

    Champions don't always lose their titles and if one should retire as Champion, then a new one has to be established from amongst the contenders. Wladimir beating Ruslan Chagev was, because of the reluctance to fight each other from the Klitschko brothers, between the best two ranked Heavyweights, according to most opinions, and as a consequence, worthy of being for THE title (no matter how bad the era is.)
     
  8. GazOC

    GazOC Guest Star for Team Taff Full Member

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    Louis-Charles is the same as Holmes-Ali in that all it was good for was to "validate" the new lineage by the new champ beating the comebacking old champ. Its not going to happen with the Wlad/ Lewis situation.
     
  9. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    Aye fair enough. Even if Louis stayed retired Charles was still going to be the Champ.
     
  10. icemax

    icemax Indian Red Full Member

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    :-( Unify the big 3 and start a new line, don't change the rules because that isn't a lineage...its like getting to choose a king, its perverse.
     
  11. GazOC

    GazOC Guest Star for Team Taff Full Member

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    The rules have to change sometimes. Holmes never won the other 2 titles after he was made IBF champ, he just beat all the other guys who had held those titles and that was good enough to make him champ.

    In any case trusting the Big 3 (not the Big 4?) to play the game and not strip a fighter or do something else stupid before he can unify and start a new lineage is giving them far too much credit and power. I'm fine with choosing to not rate Wlad as a new lineage but not because he didn't win enough baubles at the right time.
     
  12. pathmanc1986

    pathmanc1986 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    kinda like getting one from germany?;)
     
  13. Beeston Brawler

    Beeston Brawler Comical Ali-egedly Full Member

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    In an ideal world this would be the case..... problem is Wlad obviously holds one title, his brother has another (for now) and Haye has another but seems in no hurry to get in there with either.

    Depending on which slave contract Vitali's next opponent has to sign up to we might see him knocked off by Wlad, but even then there will be a question mark over his credentials because the division is ****.

    Unless there is a series of fights between the three above (and possibly adding Adamek in there) then nobody deserves to be champion :lol:

    Reduce the cruiser limit to 190 and open the division up a bit :yep
     
  14. icemax

    icemax Indian Red Full Member

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    Correct....speaking as a republican I find the whole idea of primogeniture to be bizarre. As far as I am aware there is a bloke who lives in Newcastle emlyn in west Wales who actually claims direct descent from the old Kings of Wessex and holds court in the local pub (blokes probably a nutter)
     
  15. GazOC

    GazOC Guest Star for Team Taff Full Member

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    No chance mate, the last HW champ who would have benefited from that change is Floyd Patterson nearly 50 years ago!! Against that you have innumerable Crusierweight careers that you are buggering up by making them fight as heavies.