The, is Golovkin Ducking Ward thread.

Nice to see people have a reasonable convo on GGG. I am a Golovkin fan obviously but I like rational conversations on all fighters, especially the ones I support.

The one thing I would point out is how much better Ward is than Froch who is then that much better than Chavez.

Of course Team Golovkin wants to get their man as much of an even playing field as possible. Ward is bigger, faster and stronger than GGG so getting him down to 164 is just part of the negotiations. Golovkin's team probably didn't feel they needed to bring Froch and Chavez down because they aren't as good as Ward.

I do believe that if Golovkin feels he makes 160 easy (maybe can somewhat comfortably make 154) and feels he is not big enough for super middle, then just shut up about a Ward fight. There is no way you get in the ring with Andre Ward while giving up all advantages other than power and ring IQ. The man is #2 pound for pound for a reason.

There is no reason to ever say someone is ducking another when they aren't in the same weight class.

 

Well said, especially what I highlighted. No shame in losing to future Hall of Famer Andre Ward.

 

fair points golovking

are floyd, cotto and canelo ducking ggg then?

 

Floyd- No way.

Cotto- As middleweight champ, if he stays defending the linear middleweight title, he'd have to fight Golovkin by this time next year or it would most likely be avoiding/ducking the #1 contender in GGG. If Cotto moves back down to 154 and gives up the middleweight title, then there is no case to call ducking.

Canelo- Same as Cotto but he does seem to be on his way to middleweight division and MUCH more of a fit for the division than Miguel, who was a career jr welter/welter.

All that being said, Cotto probably wants bigger fights for smaller risk so Canelo and Mayweather II fit that mold much better than a GGG fight. No brainer there.

 

I think its fair to point out that K2 was willing to make the fight on much better terms for Ward at one point, but Ward did not want anyone tougher than E-rod.

I also think its fair to point out that the 164 public offer was just making a point to Roc, and came right before GGG's first full-MSG arena, PPV outing. Noone thought Ward would do 164, I'm sure K2 didnt. The message here was if Ward wants GGG to move up to his weight class before his business at 160 is done, he needs to be giving up something himself in the negotiations in terms of venue and purse and such.

Everyone knows what a pain Ward is to deal with in negotiations, and how poor his business acumen is despite some peoples insistence on how great his negotiating team is. (I beg to differ, despite his S6 advantages if he had a great business team around him he never would have been shelved for years and would be a major star right now)

K2 just is not going to give Ward whatever he wants, just because he thinks he wants it. If he wants the GGG fight before he moves north to 175 he is going to have to give a little. Meanwhile by unifying MW titles, GGG is making the eventual Ward clash bigger for both men while Ward sits on his hands and complains how noone wants to face him (for the silly terms he offers)

 

It's Virgil Hunter typing, that's why.

 

Cotto is clearly ducking, IMO, because he has a mandatory defense he has clearly avoided and paid step aside money for. It's not the worst though, because he has a huge financial gain coming up with Canelo, and that is what he is truly after at this stage of his career and we all get that.
Canelo is after a Cotto fight, says he's not a middleweight yet can't make 154. We'll see what he does if he beats Cotto. Time will tell.
Floyd? Of course Floyd is NOT DUCKING GGG. Floyd is the lineal champion at 154, where GGG asked for the fight, but Floyd mostly fights at 147 and GGG is a career middleweight who has no ranking at 54. GGG asked for a fight, Floyd just beat Manny and is entitled to an easier defense. CBS woulda been fine for that though, I'll keep my $75

 

cotto is a ww. jr middle at best...canelo is a jr middle at best....floyd is a ww/jr middle at best

people keep saying "if ggg unifies it makes the ward fight bigger"....how does it? how does ggg having the lineal title at 160 make it a bigger fight against a guy who never fought there? lol....its just an excuse.......the fight is big enough now


why would they want to fight a career middle...its the same as expecting a guy who never fought below 160 to go up to 168 for ward....its prob worse....floyd, canelo and cotto dont have a single win at the 160 limit.....by the time ggg unifies ward will be at 175 prob with no desire to come back down......if it looks like a duck ....you know the rest

i actually dont have a problem with ggg or even what hes doing......i just think its funny how people run around here calling cotto and floyd pusssies and whatnot.....yet a guy who hasnt fought a top 50 p4p yet in his career gets all the free passes......ggg/ward makes sense......k2 clearly does not want it....

 

The one glaring hole in your opinion is that you say Canelo is AT BEST a jr middle. That's just not factually true. He can barely make 154, hence the 155 fights. The dude is a big jr. middle and ready to make the 160 leap next year.
He doesn't get to create his own Caneloweight 155 weight class.

Everything else that you wrote make sense.

 

Google search Golovkin Canelo and you'll find a couple pictures of them together. Similar sized guys.

 

golovking...in all honesty...just looking at picture....his arms and shoulders r def smaller....even his waist appears a bit smaller but hard to tell......in terms of overall sizes hes pretty relative in height/reach....i think canelo is just a bit thicker overall in the head/neck.......ill give it to you....i mean he has been campaigning at 154 reglularly for 5 years now

 

i tend to always think of canelo as a welter because of how i remember him when he started....sometimes forgetting what a pup he was...and to some degree still is....5 years at 154 and only 25...i can say hes prob a legit mw.....still in that picture you posted he looked just thicker in neck/head than ggg....but ggg still looked bigger in arms/shoulders....all relative i guess.....pretty similar in overall size

 

Ya you are right about Canelo's neck. Definitely solid.

Hey, even at 5 years in jr middle division, if he can make 154 comfortably, he should stay there and clean it out. Based on what I read about his fight night weight and walk around weight, my guess is this will be the last year at 155/154 unless he just moves the Caneloweight up to 156 or 157. Hopefully that wouldn't be the case.