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The official anti-Joy Boy train.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Amsterdam, Mar 31, 2008.

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DanePugilist God vs God - Death Angel Full Member

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brooklyn1550 said:

Thanks Am:good

I'm still not happy with it actually. My goal is to cover this from every angle and not miss a thing, so I'll watch more film with complete focus this weekend or next weekend.

I'll put up a thread once I'm finished with it.
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I thought it was very good. As per usual. The points on Hatton contra Cotto were very accurate, as well as the points on where Cotto will spell trouble for PBF - much like DLHs approach, only better.

DanePugilist, Mar 31, 2008

#31

whit Active Member Full Member

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The threads on ESB never ceases to amaze me. I mean we can actually talk about boxing matches that are coming up for a change? Wait............this is the esb forums full of haters and huggers what was I thinking?

whit, Mar 31, 2008

#32

brooklyn1550 Roberto Duran Full Member

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MSTR said:

BTW, i totally agree with your post mate. I have been saying the same thing for a very long time. The majority of posters on here said i was nuthugging early on, but as time moves forward more and more people seem to be coming to the same realisation. Especially after the Judah and Mosley fights.
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I don't get why people say Cotto is no match for Floyd. To me, it's an indication that they haven't taken the time to view and analyze Cotto from an objective standpoint. Cotto isn't Judah, Hatton, Baldomir, or an older/inactive De La Hoya. He's another animal all together.

And the 147 pound version of Floyd Mayweather isn't some all time great destroyer like a Leonard or a Hearns. He's shown vulnerabilities at this weight (and other weights other than 130) that Cotto can capitalize on. And to be fair, Cotto has weaknesses that Mayweather can capitalize on as well.

If this fight never happened, it would be a damn shame.

brooklyn1550, Mar 31, 2008

#33
Lance_Uppercut ESKIMO Full Member

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whit said:

The threads on ESB never ceases to amaze me. I mean we can actually talk about boxing matches that are coming up for a change? Wait............this is the esb forums full of haters and huggers what was I thinking?
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AHEM**

brooklyn1550 said:

Here's my analysis of Mayweather-Cotto (sorry about the length)
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Technical pressure is the way to beat Floyd. Nobody in the welterweight division brings technical/educated pressure the way Cotto does. He's better than Jose Luis Castillo in this regard and a far more versatile fighter - he's got more facets to his game than does Castillo. Hatton brought a swarming style with roughhousing tactics, so it's stupid to compare the two as some do. Floyd has always fared better against swarmers who leave themselves open coming in as seen not only in his fight with Hatton, but also Jesus Chavez.

His jab alone could offset Floyd, who has shown liabilities against right jabs at welterweight and at 150. Even in the Hatton fight, Ricky was timed him with a couple jabs early on. Floyd would lead with a left hook and Hatton would duck it or take a step back and time him with his own jab. But Ricky doesn't consistantly throw the jab. When he did lead with it, those were the instances where he was able to get inside without taking crisp countershots in the process. The problem with Hatton is his failure to work inside. I was screaming at the television, telling him to let his hands go with short combinations to the body and the head. But he holds, grapples, and throws an occasional punch.

A thing I noticed in the De La Hoya fight, is that when Floyd is pressured by somebody who leads with a good left jab, he backs straight into the ropes. When he's on the ropes, he picks his spots and can be very sneaky. But his punch output also decreases which means he can be roughed up and outworked. On the ropes, I think Cotto would put him into a shell, more or less. I believe that Cotto's activity and power would catch the attention of the judges in these occurances.

Cotto has underrated speed of foot. He's not as fast as Hatton on his feet, but he is far more steady, intelligent, and consistant in his approach. No doubt he'd find a way to close the gap and make Floyd fight because Floyd doesn't give the same movement he used to at 130 or 135. As I mentioned before, on the inside, he is very fluid and throws short, accurate combinations upstairs and downstairs. Hatton, on the other hand, holds and grapples, which is effective at 140, but not against fighters at 147 whom he does not hold a strength advantage over. Cotto is more accurate and calculating than De La Hoya is on the inside. De La Hoya will let his hands go in flurries to catch the attention of the judges, but he's not as consistent as Cotto in close nor is Oscar as accurate. His stamina is clearly levels below the current Cotto. Oscar is actually more of an outside fighter who likes to catch pressure fighters coming in. He's never been as good when he has to bring the fight to somebody.

People underrate Cotto's handspeed and timing too. He's mixes it up real well and is more unpredictable in his offensive attack than most give him credit for. He has the ability to change up the trajectory and angles of certain shots to catch faster fighters. He showed this against Quintana and Zab Judah. I don't think there's a ribcage that Cotto can't find.

Cotto's defense is good enough for him not to get "check-hooked" or embarassed with right hand leads. His high guard prevents this as does the jab on the way in. Floyd would definitely hit him though with uppercuts and straight shots up the middle (probably stun him a few times), as Judah was able to do. But the lack of combinations at 147 from Floyd wouldn't be enough from keeping Cotto off of him or enough to make Cotto fight a tactical fight on the outside where he would be at a disadvantage. Floyd is stronger than he's given credit for, but he's definitely not as strong as Cotto. This means that, unlike Mosley, Floyd wouldn't get Cotto on the backfoot, looking to counter.

Simply put, Cotto has all the tools to beat Floyd in my view. And I don't say this because I'm a big fan of Cotto. I call fights how I see them and I've never gone against Floyd in the past.

Floyd would have to fight with him for most of the fight he would get outworked, outmuscled, and roughed up. Floyd would take rounds based on his counter punching and clean punching. I see a 116-112, 115-113 type decision on the scorecards.

If this fight happens in mid/late 2009, I think this works to Cotto's advantage because he's getting better and getting valuable experience, wheras Floyd's reflexes and speed are steadily decreasing (it's not rapid at all, but it's apparent when you compare the current 147 pound version with the versions from the lower weights).
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Go through the thread next time.

Lance_Uppercut, Mar 31, 2008

#34

DanePugilist God vs God - Death Angel Full Member

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MSTR said:

BTW, i totally agree with your post mate. I have been saying the same thing for a very long time. The majority of posters on here said i was nuthugging early on, but as time moves forward more and more people seem to be coming to the same realisation. Especially after the Judah and Mosley fights.
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Some people are gifted with foresight. Some people play it safe. MSTR, you are part of the first category.

As for myself - I took the middle road, as I wanted more proof to him being elite, as I was fairly certain after the Quintana fight that he had tons of talent, but could still falter. After Zab, it was a point of no return for me.

DanePugilist, Mar 31, 2008

#35
DanePugilist God vs God - Death Angel Full Member

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Lance_Uppercut said:

AHEM**

Go through the thread next time.
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:smoke

DanePugilist, Mar 31, 2008

#36
brooklyn1550 Roberto Duran Full Member

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DanePugilist said:

Some people are gifted with foresight. Some people play it safe. MSTR, you are part of the first category.

As for myself - I took the middle road, as I wanted more proof to him being elite, as I was fairly certain after the Quintana fight that he had tons of talent, but could still falter. After Zab, it was a point of no return for me.
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I've been meaning to ask you, but what happened after the Calzaghe/Kessler fight? It's like you suddenly disappeared

brooklyn1550, Mar 31, 2008

#37

kg0208 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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brooklyn1550 said:

I've been meaning to ask you, but what happened after the Calzaghe/Kessler fight? It's like you suddenly disappeared
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Dammit Brooklyn....thats your 3rd avatar today isn't it?

kg0208, Mar 31, 2008

#38
whit Active Member Full Member

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Lance_Uppercut said:

AHEM**

Go through the thread next time.
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Let me rephrase then if I have offended you yet again. Lets talk about upcoming fights that have been announced.:good

whit, Mar 31, 2008

#39
brooklyn1550 Roberto Duran Full Member

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kg0208 said:

Dammit Brooklyn....thats your 3rd avatar today isn't it?
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brooklyn1550, Mar 31, 2008

#40
DanePugilist God vs God - Death Angel Full Member

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PedroDePacas said:

Can't say I agree, but from the looks of things I'm very unlikely to persuade you today...

I've voted "Mayweather is God" - not an accurate reflection of what I think, but closer than the other option. Yes, I wish he'd fight Cotto too, but (1) IMO he is the best fighter, pound for pound, in the world at the moment, and (2) you talk like he's been inactive for years. He fought another top-10 p4p guy less than 5 months ago.
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Another guy that has failed to impress at 147 before that.

Before that then? DLH, Judah, Baldomir, Gatti, Corley the list is long of has beens or neverbeens all the way down to Castillo.

DanePugilist, Mar 31, 2008

#41

Lance_Uppercut ESKIMO Full Member

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whit said:

Let me rephrase then if I have offended you yet again. Lets talk about upcoming fights that have been announced.:good
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Offended? I just pointed that out to you. And if you saw the thread title, upcoming fights probably wasn't your first thought. :roll:

Lance_Uppercut, Mar 31, 2008

#42
Samurai I lost an avatar bet Full Member

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The guy is amazing talented and a joy to watch, but much like other people have mentioned about what he said about the possibilities of a Cotto matchup; **** that! I'm on this train baby.

My life will not be at peace until a Mayweather-Cotto matchup is made.

Oh yeah, amazing post Brooklyn. Well worth the read :smoke

Samurai, Mar 31, 2008

#43
DanePugilist God vs God - Death Angel Full Member

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brooklyn1550 said:

I've been meaning to ask you, but what happened after the Calzaghe/Kessler fight? It's like you suddenly disappeared
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Yes, I did. In fact I disappeared the day after the fight, only to return less than 2 weeks ago.

It was not related to his loss, though. That said, I must admit I didn't feel like discussing boxing for 2 weeks out of sheer disappointment.

ESB has been sorely missed though, and I am glad to be back.

DanePugilist, Mar 31, 2008

#44
brooklyn1550 Roberto Duran Full Member

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DanePugilist said:

Yes, I did. In fact I disappeared the day after the fight, only to return less than 2 weeks ago.

It was not related to his loss, though. That said, I must admit I didn't feel like discussing boxing for 2 weeks out of sheer disappointment.

ESB has been sorely missed though, and I am glad to be back.
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Good to have you back:good

brooklyn1550, Mar 31, 2008

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