The Top 100 Pound for Pound All-Time Greats

So what are you two saying here? Make a call. Same tier, one below, is two below acceptable? DO you think Mayweather is too high perhaps or given the choice would you like to wait and see?

Finally, what's the gravity like between Pac and May? Are they locked into the same tier, or could you leave with seeing one between them in each directrion? If so which direction?

 

Yes. I think that they can be in the same tier because we can sort out the fine detail when we number them.

OK, i'll wait for BE, but here's where I'm at with this. I think Floyd and Pac are a little higher than they ought to be and their relationship with Oscar has exposed this. So tentatively, what I plan to do is drop Mayweather and Pac back to Holding and place Loughran in teir IV (above Chavez but below Canzoneri) and move Gomez into Teir VI where he'll be ranked below Sanchez when I number them.

I'll look to have May and Pac in teir VII and Oscar can then be in teir VIII if one emerges...possibly.

 

One thing worth keeping in mind is that fighters seperated by a tier can easily end up being ranked closer than two fighters in the same tier. Tiering is a way of saying what a fighter is not rather than what a fighter is.

09.
10.
11.
12.
TIER 3
13.

And 12 and 13 are seperated by one place despite inhabiting different tiers whereas 9 and 12, which were in the same tier, have two fighters between them. That being the case, i'll consider that you signed off on those changes BE.

 

Tier I

1) San Langford

2) Harry Greb

3) Ray Robinson

4) Henry Armstrong

5) Bob Fitzsimmons

6) Ezzard Charles

7) Muhammad Ali

Benny Leonard

Tier II
Joe Gans, Mickey Walker, Archie Moore, Roberto Duran, Packey McFarland, Joe Louis, Willie Pep, Sugar Ray Leonard.

Tier III
George Dixon, Joe Walcott, Charley Burley, Holman Williams, Sugar Ray Leonard, Barney Ross, Tony Canzoneri, Jimmy McLarnin, Sandy Saddler.

Tier IV
Gene Tunney, Ruben Olivares, Pernell Whitaker, Roy Jones, Terry McGovern, Billy Conn, Kid Gavilan, Stanley Ketchel, Eder Jofre, Tommy Loughran.

Tier V
Julio Cesar Chavez, Alexis Arguello, Jimmy Wilde, Jose Napoles, Emile Griffith, Jack Britton, Carlos Monzon, Marvin Hagler, Jimmy Bivins. Ike Williams.

Tier VI
Salvador Sanchez, Manuel Ortiz, Evander Holyfield, Rocky Marciano, Fighting Harada, Michael Spinks, Wilfredo Gomez

Tier VII?
Ted Kid Lewis, Carlos Zarate, Jack Dempsey (np), Tommy Ryan, Carlos Ortiz, Luis Manuel Rodriguez, Bernard Hopkins, Dick Tiger, Thomas Hearns, Floyd Mayweather, Manny Pacquiao



What about these guys? (Holding)
Oscar De La Hoya.

 

VII is kind of a test of the concept as they are in main the leftovers that nobody has made a strong case for. But it looks not too bad. It's big though, so ideas about moving at least one up or out to holding would be welcome.

 

AAAAAggh i cant do that. I think Chavez gets overated and Olivares gets underated on this kind of list. If you remember, I already moved him up once at the back of something Vic said. I corrected that over-compensation. But I don't think I could make a change like that based on anything less than a properly detailed post that i found extremely persuasive.

 

I'll try and simplify it for you.

Burley x3 is better than anything Ike has.

Moore is better than anything Ike has.

His overall W is better than Ike's is.

He therefore ranks above Ike, probably around twenty places on my list.

The words have meaning - they are very direct and extremely clear.

Of course I know who is you big fud. I uploaded his title fight with Jackie Fields to my YT channel two years ago. I didn't know who "YC3" was. I've never seen him referred to as that before and won't recognise it if someone refers to him as this in a year's time.

If you include the two teirs they inhabit, this still isn't true, he's three tiers below him. If you don't, there is one between them. You seem to be about 24hrs behind your own ass?

It will add up to about 20 places I think. I'm perfectly comfortable with this.

Williams isn't anything like the puncher you make him out to be generally, and he isn't anything like the fighter you've made him out to be in this thread IMO.

I have justified it - in some detail. You haven't responded, of course, you've just made a post loaded with butthurt.

Thanks. You seem determined to have one, but if you don't fancy it it's certainly not something I want for this thread.

The above is ludicrous though. Writing off Holman's win over Moore as "lucky" is stupid. Pretending for the purposes of the argument you're not interested in having that Ike went "equal with Gavilan" is more so.

 

Yeah, it is shakey, but I think luf is right - taking out the active guys will end up looking the greater of the two evils.

I think Hopkins and Mayweather and Pacquiao are going to end up pretty close. That's how it looks to me now. We shall see.

 

What about relative to Pacquiao?