The truth about MAYWEATHER and MOSLEY

Flea Man · Jan 26, 2009

DINAMITA said: ↑

I think the main criticism we all level at Floyd Mayweather is regarding his resume. We all (well, 99% of us allowing for a few people who seem to despise the guy on this forum!) know he is a fantastic fighter with excellent skills and he has undoubtedly achieved a lot in his career (titles in 5 weight divisions etc), but while he has ATG skills and ATG achievements, I don't think anyone can justifiably argue that he has an ATG resume.

Floyd's best wins are Corrales, Castillo II, De La Hoya and Hatton. Now these are very good wins (Corrales in particular was exceptional), but in ATG terms this does not equal a good resume. It's a good resume when set against the resumes of other fighters around just now, it is a good resume, but it is not great and it is certainly not of ATG standard IMO. When you compare Floyd's resume to that of De La Hoya or Hopkins or Barrera, fighters from his own era, then it does not stack up well.

I am not "hating" on Mayweather, I am a fan of his skills and I think it's a real shame that he never fought enough top quality fighters because the guy would probably have beaten anyone he met (imagine how much stronger his resume would be if he had fought guys like Tszyu and Williams by now?), but he didn't and when people are evaluating his greatness in 20 or 30 years, the names CORRALES and CASTILLO and HATTON and JUDAH are not going to evoke memories of great fighters and great opponents, his resume is going to depreciate with time as these merely good fighters are largely forgotten.

I don't agree with his decision to retire but I can kind of understand why he wasn't motivated to fight guys like Cotto and Margarito because Floyd is a natural superfeatherweight, to take on a fully-sized powerful welterweight would be a risk for him, and whereas he would very probably win, he would have a hard night outboxing them. Guys like Cotto and Margarito are strong welterweights, but crucially they have not became NAMES yet (Cotto still might, Margarito most likely won't). When I say 'became NAMES' I mean these guys haven't proved that they are great fighters yet, they have not secured a lasting legacy as a fighter. Mayweather would be taking a risk and giving himself a hard night where he may take some punishment and he may not look good winning, but the reward would not outweigh this risk. It's likely that the names of Cotto and Margarito will appear like the names of Corrales and Castillo will in 20 or 30 years time - good fighters, good opponents, but not jumping off the page at you, not ATGs, and not jewel-in-the-crown type wins.

SHANE MOSLEY is the fight that Mayweather needs to bring him back.

In 20 or 30 years time, Mosley will be remembered in his own right as one of the very best fighters of this era. He has already secured his legacy, many people consider him a great.

After that performance against Margarito, no-one can seriously say this is a shot or even well past-prime Mosley. He hasn't looked that good in years, hasn't shown such speed and power and all-round quality in a long time. He may not be peak anymore, but last night he proved he is still capable of fighting at a very high level.

If Mayweather strikes while the iron is hot and Mosley's stock is high and arranges this fight for summer 2009, it would easily be the biggest and best win of his career IMO, and would greatly improve his resume and his legacy.

Having the name of Shane Mosley on his resume will mean much much more in 20 or 30 years time than Corrales or Castillo or Williams or Cotto or Margarito.

This is easily the best option for PBF. It's the only option if he wants to underline his greatness.

And from a personal point of view, I'd love to see them fight. Two of the very best fighters of this generation, both brilliant the last time we saw them in the ring (Mosley KO'ing Margo, Mayweather dismantling Hatton), it would be a super fight. I have no idea who would win, but it would be a great great fight for boxing.

Here's hoping.

:bbb
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All good points, I made a similar comment about resume's in another thread you started.

Mosley vs. PBF NEEDS to happen.

THE BLADE · Jan 26, 2009

p4pdabest said: ↑

So many flaws in your post. You and bladerunner must both be on the track together! :rofl:rofl:rofl
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Well, I did not expect my post to please the PBF fanclub but it is the truth.Facts are facts and you can't deny them.

boxbox · Jan 26, 2009

DINAMITA said: ↑

So you think Mosley would beat him??
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Yes. Do you think Mosely doesnt stand a chance?:blood

Bill Butcher · Jan 26, 2009

DINAMITA said: ↑

I think the main criticism we all level at Floyd Mayweather is regarding his resume. We all (well, 99% of us allowing for a few people who seem to despise the guy on this forum!) know he is a fantastic fighter with excellent skills and he has undoubtedly achieved a lot in his career (titles in 5 weight divisions etc), but while he has ATG skills and ATG achievements, I don't think anyone can justifiably argue that he has an ATG resume.

Floyd's best wins are Corrales, Castillo II, De La Hoya and Hatton. Now these are very good wins (Corrales in particular was exceptional), but in ATG terms this does not equal a good resume. It's a good resume when set against the resumes of other fighters around just now, it is a good resume, but it is not great and it is certainly not of ATG standard IMO. When you compare Floyd's resume to that of De La Hoya or Hopkins or Barrera, fighters from his own era, then it does not stack up well.

I am not "hating" on Mayweather, I am a fan of his skills and I think it's a real shame that he never fought enough top quality fighters because the guy would probably have beaten anyone he met (imagine how much stronger his resume would be if he had fought guys like Tszyu and Williams by now?), but he didn't and when people are evaluating his greatness in 20 or 30 years, the names CORRALES and CASTILLO and HATTON and JUDAH are not going to evoke memories of great fighters and great opponents, his resume is going to depreciate with time as these merely good fighters are largely forgotten.

I don't agree with his decision to retire but I can kind of understand why he wasn't motivated to fight guys like Cotto and Margarito because Floyd is a natural superfeatherweight, to take on a fully-sized powerful welterweight would be a risk for him, and whereas he would very probably win, he would have a hard night outboxing them. Guys like Cotto and Margarito are strong welterweights, but crucially they have not became NAMES yet (Cotto still might, Margarito most likely won't). When I say 'became NAMES' I mean these guys haven't proved that they are great fighters yet, they have not secured a lasting legacy as a fighter. Mayweather would be taking a risk and giving himself a hard night where he may take some punishment and he may not look good winning, but the reward would not outweigh this risk. It's likely that the names of Cotto and Margarito will appear like the names of Corrales and Castillo will in 20 or 30 years time - good fighters, good opponents, but not jumping off the page at you, not ATGs, and not jewel-in-the-crown type wins.

SHANE MOSLEY is the fight that Mayweather needs to bring him back.

In 20 or 30 years time, Mosley will be remembered in his own right as one of the very best fighters of this era. He has already secured his legacy, many people consider him a great.

After that performance against Margarito, no-one can seriously say this is a shot or even well past-prime Mosley. He hasn't looked that good in years, hasn't shown such speed and power and all-round quality in a long time. He may not be peak anymore, but last night he proved he is still capable of fighting at a very high level.

If Mayweather strikes while the iron is hot and Mosley's stock is high and arranges this fight for summer 2009, it would easily be the biggest and best win of his career IMO, and would greatly improve his resume and his legacy.

Having the name of Shane Mosley on his resume will mean much much more in 20 or 30 years time than Corrales or Castillo or Williams or Cotto or Margarito.

This is easily the best option for PBF. It's the only option if he wants to underline his greatness.

And from a personal point of view, I'd love to see them fight. Two of the very best fighters of this generation, both brilliant the last time we saw them in the ring (Mosley KO'ing Margo, Mayweather dismantling Hatton), it would be a super fight. I have no idea who would win, but it would be a great great fight for boxing.

Here's hoping.

:bbb
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Agreed.

Mayweather`s record is the only thing stopping him from being a regular top 15 or even top 10 ATG boxer because everything else is there & then some.

Ive never been a huge fan, tho always respected Mosely but he has won me over after that Margo fight, Ive such massive respect for the man now, both as a boxer & as a throw back warrior.

It sure would be a great fight between these 2 & both would have full hands in this one, the outcome isnt certain with SSM being naturally bigger & FMJ being fresher.

Id back Floyd on points but Id love to see it happen. Floyd should get his ass in gear NOW because Shane doesnt hang around, he`ll be off fighting another top p4per before you know it, thats what he does.... & thats the mindset Floyd has to adopt... quickly.

:thumbsup

THE BLADE · Jan 26, 2009

Bill Butcher said: ↑

Agreed.

Mayweather`s record is the only thing stopping him from being a regular top 15 or even top 10 ATG boxer because everything else is there & then some.

Ive never been a huge fan, tho always respected Mosely but he has won me over after that Margo fight, Ive such massive respect for the man now, both as a boxer & as a throw back warrior.

It sure would be a great fight between these 2 & both would have full hands in this one, the outcome isnt certain with SSM being naturally bigger & FMJ being fresher.

Id back Floyd on points but Id love to see it happen. Floyd should get his ass in gear NOW because Shane doesnt hang around, he`ll be off fighting another top p4per before you know it, thats what he does.... & thats the mindset Floyd has to adopt... quickly.

:thumbsup
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First of all, you state that he is record is the only thing that stops him from being an ATG.

- When measuring your ATG status, the record should always be the main criteria. So what else is left? Longivity? PBF does not have it either.The alphabetice titles do not mean as much as back in the day.DH foe example did capture a lot of thoses titles but was unable in the last 10 years to beat a great (or very good) fighter.

- PBF never fought his toughest challenges meaning Cotto, Mosley, Margarito, Wllilams. That is not what a true ATG does. Take for instant, Duran or Hearns. Duran fought Barkley at middlweight and Hearns fought Hill at lightheavyweight, enough said. PBF is simply overrated by some folks here. And Hearns does not even rank in the TOP 20.

imp4pdabest · Jan 26, 2009

THE BLADE said: ↑

Well, I did not expect my post to please the PBF fanclub but it is the truth.Facts are facts and you can't deny them.
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Yeah, facts are facts. FACT = Your post was f_cked up! :rofl:rofl:rofl

THE BLADE · Jan 26, 2009

p4pdabest said: ↑

Yeah, facts are facts. FACT = Your post was f_cked up! :rofl:rofl:rofl
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Arguments, added value?

I guess zero. Your childish beahviour is explained by the fact that you can't deal with the truth.

imp4pdabest · Jan 26, 2009

THE BLADE said: ↑

Arguments, added value?

I guess zero. Your childish beahviour is explained by the fact that you can't deal with the truth.
Click to expand...

TRUTH = PBF accomplished way more than a Tijuana Windmill has.
FALSE = PBF ducked Mosley!

DINAMITA · Jan 26, 2009

TheGreat said: ↑

Hopkins did it with Pavlik, Holy was robbed against Valuev, Margo is a slow, crude, limied fighter who is smaller and weaker than the other guys SSM stopped at 154 recently, Mosley was able to fully wind up and tee off on Margo at will which is why he stopped him, that won't happen against PBF, hell I'm not sure if he still has what it takes to beat Berto. Watch his fights with Cotto and Estrada and explain to me how you can not see how far past it he is.
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Hopkins isn't shot though. He, like Mosley, is past-prime but is still capable of performing at a high level. Holy was robbed against Valuev because Valuev is a poor boxer, as Chagaev had already proved. Mosley is past-prime, no-one is denying that, but he is not shot.

DINAMITA · Jan 26, 2009

THE BLADE said: ↑

Well, I think it is debatable if Maywearther is an ATG.Doug Fischer, Emanuel Steward stated MAyweather is not an ATG. I am not aware of any articles stating PBF is an ATG. PBF has a few things going against him:
g
- He spent a few years fighting weak competition which was tolerated by HBO.

- He left unfinished business behind him in the welterweight division. I am personally not convinced that he beats the likes Maragarito and Cotto...

- I don't doubt his accomplishments and his ability to fight.
But in terms of resumee, he ranks behind Toney who is a top all time great himself.
He has won a lot of alphabetic titles but they don't mean as much as back in the day.

- He retired at age 30 in his prime. That is just not the mentality of a real fighter and true ATG. It shows that he has become a business man.The O does not mean that much when you retire that early.

-Although face to face comparision with other ATG: guys like Benitez, Whitaker, and Duran would have beaten him.
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You have a good point here, there's no denying it. I think Mayweather is an ATG, but it is certainly debatable. He does not have an ATG resume, therefore I'm becoming less and less sure that he deserves ATG status because of that.

THE BLADE said: ↑

PBF needs to get back and fight some of the elite welterweights like Cotto. Maragrito, Williams, Mosley to secure his ATG status. You say PBF beats any of these guys. I am not convinced at all.
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I think Mayweather would definitely beat Cotto and Margarito. I'm not sure if he'd beat Mosley or Williams, but if pushed I probably would back him to win. Who knows though.

THE BLADE said: ↑

I do not agree with your reasoning that PBF should not fight Cotta an Margarito because they are qute known right now. Then you say PBF would take a risk in fighting them. Well, that is what I expect from a fighter who wants to reach ATG status.Fighters are taking risks all the time.
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But I am not saying he shouldn't fight them, I'm saying I understand why he didn't/isn't.

DINAMITA · Jan 26, 2009

boxbox said: ↑

Yes. Do you think Mosely doesnt stand a chance?:blood
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I think Mosley stands a good chance. I'm not confident enough to say I think he would beat Mayweather, but he definitely stands a good chance.

DINAMITA · Jan 26, 2009

Bill Butcher said: ↑

Agreed.

Mayweather`s record is the only thing stopping him from being a regular top 15 or even top 10 ATG boxer because everything else is there & then some.
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I disagree. I don't believe Mayweather is a top tier ATG in terms of ability, he is not Sugar Ray Robinson or Sugar Ray Leonard or Roberto Duran. For me he is the next level down. Still a superb fighter, but not on par with SRL.

Bill Butcher said: ↑

Id back Floyd on points but Id love to see it happen. Floyd should get his ass in gear NOW because Shane doesnt hang around, he`ll be off fighting another top p4per before you know it, thats what he does.... & thats the mindset Floyd has to adopt... quickly.

:thumbsup
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more with this though.

Pro · Jan 26, 2009

U people need to let Floyd retire in peace this **** is getting ridiculous...Shane Mosley at age 37 does not stand a chance against Floyd and i honestly think it's unfair to compare Mayweather with the Mosley's and Delahoya's of this time because a lot of people ducked him and didn't give him that shot he's tired of fighting now and you want to judge...this is what i say to those.

Take what you've seen from Floyd his whole career.
Do the same with Shane.
If you don't know who wins that fight your either dumb or just a hater.
Especially at this point in Shane's career.

Shane should follow in Floyd's foot steps and retire before he forgets how to throw a right hand...that interview after the Margarito fight wasn't Shane Mosley that was an old fighter who gave one last great hurrah!

Bill Butcher · Jan 26, 2009

DINAMITA said: ↑

I disagree. I don't believe Mayweather is a top tier ATG in terms of ability, he is not Sugar Ray Robinson or Sugar Ray Leonard or Roberto Duran. For me he is the next level down. Still a superb fighter, but not on par with SRL.
Click to expand...

I personally rank those 3 ahead of Mayweather but in all honesty, I wouldnt rank any boxer on a whole higher level than Mayweather when talking just ability.

Ability wise, he should be spoken of in the same sentence, at least the same paragraph as those 3... its his silly mindset that is looking like giving him an ATG ranking that will look out of place compared to his talent.

:good

DINAMITA · Jan 26, 2009

Pro said: ↑

U people need to let Floyd retire in peace this **** is getting ridiculous...
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What the hell is ridiculous about wanting to see the world's best fighter back in the ring?? Don't you enjoy watching great fighters show their skills?? Floyd is only 30 or 31, it's a tragedy that he retired so young as he could have achieved so much more. It's only natural to want him back fighting class fighters, it's just weird to want him to stay retired.

Pro said: ↑

Shane Mosley at age 37 does not stand a chance against Floyd
Click to expand...

Mosley is a welterweight who was strong enough to outmuscle the huge Antonio Margarito and who has campaigned at lightmiddle. What is it that you have seen in Mayweather's welterweight career that makes you think he could handle someone of Mosley's size and strength with ease??

Pro said: ↑

and i honestly think it's unfair to compare Mayweather with the Mosley's and Delahoya's of this time because a lot of people ducked him and didn't give him that shot he's tired of fighting now and you want to judge...this is what i say to those.
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Who ducked him exactly? Do you have names??

There's no way in hell enough people ducked him that had he fought them his resume would even come close to De La Hoya's. Oscar's resume is far better than PBF's because Oscar chased fights with the best, and Floyd didn't to the same extent.

Pro said: ↑

Take what you've seen from Floyd his whole career.
Do the same with Shane.
Click to expand...

Mosley's first win over De La Hoya was a better win and a more impressive performance than any of Floyd's wins. Who did Floyd ever beat convincingly who was better than peak Oscar??

Pro said: ↑

If you don't know who wins that fight your either dumb or just a hater.
Especially at this point in Shane's career.
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That's a silly fanboy comment. Floyd would rightly start as favourite to win that fight, but it is not a Pavlik v Lockett style foregone conclusion like you are making out. Again I'd ask you, what is it you have seen in Mayweather's welterweight career that makes you think he could easily dispose of someone of Mosley's size and power?

Pro said: ↑

Shane should follow in Floyd's foot steps and retire before he forgets how to throw a right hand...that interview after the Margarito fight wasn't Shane Mosley that was an old fighter who gave one last great hurrah!
Click to expand...

Maybe he still has one more last great hurrah, or even a few last great hurrahs. Maybe he could become another Bernard Hopkins.

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