I call it how I see it as well, which is with some sense of historical perspective rather than just looking at it as Toney/ Mayorga type trash talking. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree eh?
Thats what boxings about :good This is perhiperal to your general boxing thrash talk but its still open to debate and differing opinons. If we all agreed with each other it would be like a discussion on the Sky Sports football panel. A load of ****s sitting around agreeing with each other and saying that everyone is great and everything is 'smashing'
Regardless of anyones view of Ali or Frazier, these two fighters produced a trilogy that is as good as any....the Thrilla even transcended their first fight which in itself was an absolute classic. Thank you Joe and Muhammad
To bring it off topic a little just for a second while triolgies are being thrown around. I'd recommend Ali-Norton trilogy for anyone who hasn't seen it. Less well known and sexy as the Ali-Frazier trilogy but captivating nonetheless
What I find sad is that to this day it seems Joe still harbours a grudge against Ali. Isn't it in this documentary where we see that Frazier's answerphone message mocks Ali's current condition? I sort of understand where it comes from - both guys were equals, sure Ali won the series 2-1 but no one pushed him as hard as Frazier did, no one tested him like that. Yet today, the fighter the world reveres and looks back in awe at is Ali. Frazier is largely forgotten, even ignored by the general public. Ali is financially secure whereas Joe had to sell his gym off and appear in Klitschko ring entrances to make a few bucks. That all gnaws away at Joe in my opinion and doesn't allow him to make peace with Ali. Remember that comment about pushing Muhammad into the Olympic flame? It's quite sad and a real shame that they haven't settled their differences in old age.
agreed, joe's relenting hatred of ali even at the age of 63 made for quite a warped ending to it, up to then it was good, if not slightly pro frazier
I saw the doc a while ago, don't remember them makin too much of it TBH. However it's something that gets glossed over whenever there's any doc or article about Ali. You have to face the reality, these people weren't a bunch of pious monks, they were armed to the teeth, their slogan was "kill whitey", they were 110% against the civil rights movement and a lot of black people were scared to death of them. They were also heretics in Muslim terms as they considered their leader a prophet. EDIT: @People saying they don't get Frazier's inability to let it go: I haven't read ghosts of Manilla but isn't there something in it about Ali turning up at Frazier's door with a bunch of gun toting NOI goons? I'm sure I've read that in the classic forum. If that happened to me I wouldn't exactly be forgiving either.