Yea but these younger fans ain't gonna remember or even process that. That's why I said modern ground and pound. If you wanna get technical Dan Servern was the first guy I remember to pummel your ass on the ground. Tito was mainstream and fans loved to hate him or hated to love him. So ask a fanboy about GnP and you'll get Tito. We both know its true. :good
. HeY No, it was Mark Coleman. Severn had a TD, top control game mainly. He thought punch was something you drank at the aftershow party. That's why Royce subbed him after being on the bottom for so long, Dan didnt punish him with g'n'p. Maybe Kimo has a case for g'n'p, but he was just throwing wildly at Royce, didnt use wreslting to maintain control, and more importantly, didnt win the fight. And in the same event, Steve Jennum pounded out y boy Harold Howard on the ground too. Severn didnt even make his debut until UFC 4, so you cant give it to Dan in any way shape or form. Ken Shamrock used the same forumla against Royce as Dan did, but if either had learned the lessons from Kimo at UFC 3 then you could give them the father of g'n'p accolade. But they didnt. If you want the 1st example of a guy winning a fight from top control with elbows, watch Gary Goodridge v Herrera at UFC 8 is the most brutal early example that comes to mind Wether 'younger fans' were aware of this or not is irrelevant. The two Mark's were the 1st to combine the TD's and top control displayed by Dan Severn, with the strikes on the ground of Kimo and Goodridge, which was the birth of true ground and pound. Tito was aware of the advantages of Coleman's style and utitlised it himself. And if you want to debate the 'modern g'n'p' malarky, Tito made his debut only a year after Coleman.
No problem fella. I keep editing my OP on g'n'p too as Im thinking of more examples of it's developement. Gonna stop now or we'll end up with a novel on 'How g'n'p developed in the UFC'
Well I admit I've never watched much early Dan Severn but his fights into his career like mid way he showed some nasty ground and pound so I jumped the gun. Coleman and Kerr were obvious answers to any hardcore MMA fan. However, Tito was so immensely popular and displayed such brutal GnP it is plausible to say the younger fans can associate GnP with him.
Entirely plausible fella. But you've got to remember that Tito was a star in the straight to video days and I think his popularity is based on people wanting to see Chuck KHTFO rather than his fighting style. Not to downplay his style of course, which was brutal
Funny because I use to despise Tito Ortiz with a passion! Now, I can't stop looking up his fights and wondering how I could've hated him so much especially when I'm partial to the villain. His style matches up so well with so many great fighters just Chuck, he had his number... Then again, Chuck is a h2h nightmare for soooooooo many ATG LHW's.
Evans prob got on his hands and knees to fight Chris or Fail. Both would be beaten bad. Fail couldn't stand witl Evans and would be beaten silly. Chris wound't stop the ground and pound. Plus both would be too small. You know he in no way wanted L.M. Very Bad fight for Evans. Tito is the best match up. Off of a very good win. Fans pay to see him. An Evans win, would look good to the fans because of Tito last fight.
You make some good points but I think it's fair to give the credit to Shamrock for really devising the strategy that Mark Coleman went on to use to great effect. Shamrock was the first wrestler to fight in the UFC and the first to actually devise a strategy for how to fight against someone using a skilled jiujitsu guard by not trying to pass and unleashing strikes on your opponent. Severn wasn't consciously working against the guard he was just trying to wrestle his opponents - he didn't even know what it was and had no idea he was even in danger from Royce's triangle choke until he suddenly realized he was being choked out. Shamrock created the model that Coleman capitalized on.
Good points SnG, Severn created, maybe unwittingly, a formula to shut Royce down that Ken used to great effect. And Ken wasnt a wrestler, atleast not in the Dan and Coleman sense, and he didnt use it to stop the fight at all using strike, just as a defence. So I cant really give Ken the credit for being the first example of G'n'P at all as quite somply he didnt really use any strikes at UFC 5, I think that he was worried about the sub but could have used this to force the stoppage. If he'd struck like Kimo did then he'd get the nod, but tbh Ken didnt even do much offensively in the rematch. Ken was always looking to get the sub 1st So the 1st TD, top control and strike formula was still used by Coleman, other fighters had indeed used other aspects of this before, but not to the degree or effect that Coleman did