to put holyfields greatness in perspective...

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Illmatic, Sep 14, 2007.

  1. El Bombasto

    El Bombasto Ask yo momma Full Member

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    great cruiserweight, good heavyweight
     
  2. brooklyn1550

    brooklyn1550 Roberto Duran Full Member

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    :nono Great cruiserweight, great heavyweight
     
  3. El Bombasto

    El Bombasto Ask yo momma Full Member

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    okay, make your case...
     
  4. brooklyn1550

    brooklyn1550 Roberto Duran Full Member

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    It all depends on your individual definition and criteria of greatness, but here it goes...

    Holyfield, at heavyweight, was the undisputed champion and in all, won the or a title 4 times. He defeated 3 future hall of famers (Mike Tyson twice, George Foreman, and Larry Holmes), potentially 4 (if you count Riddick Bowe which I will not). Holyfield beat champions/top contenders such as Hasim Rahman, Pinklon Thomas, John Ruiz, Buster Douglas, Michael Dokes, Bert Cooper, and Ray Mercer.

    Make your case...
     
  5. Hank

    Hank Well-Known Member Full Member

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    He lost in prime to bowe 2 of 3, Duran and others did not lose in prime, or some mentioned fought 10-20 times a year. John Ruiz? That is not a great win.
     
  6. brooklyn1550

    brooklyn1550 Roberto Duran Full Member

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    Duran lost to Esteban De Jesus in his prime at lightweight.

    Other great fighters fought so often because the times were so much different. Many of them had 35-40 losses on their resume, but that doesn't prevent them from being great.

    Holyfield has won 7 different world title belts and has been Ring champion in 2 weight classes. His longevity is amazing and so are the high quality of wins on his resume. He has defeated Holmes, Tyson, Foreman, and Qawi (all current or future hall of famers) and Riddick Bowe (who I don't think is a future hall of famer although a case can be made if Jess Willard is in the hall of fame). Holyfield is an ATG - both accomplishment-wise and talent-wise. I can even make a poll to see what the majority of ESB posters think if you want.
     
  7. El Bombasto

    El Bombasto Ask yo momma Full Member

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    no disrespect intended brooklyn, but i think you have omitted a few key details from your synopsis:

    -as a heavyweight, he was unable to hold on to his title for more than 3 defenses. his second 'title reign' ended with his first defense.

    -he beat foreman post retirement and at the age of 42, he beat holmes post retirement and also at the age of 42

    -he lost 2/3 to bowe, he was 1-1-1 against ruiz (imo no suppossed hofer should ever lose of draw with that piece of crap)

    -rahman & douglas were literally one-hit wonders, cooper has record of 36-22

    holyfield will be remembered, but only because he's stuck around for so long, and has managed to get himself involved in significant fights. he's the jersey joe walcott of this era
     
  8. brooklyn1550

    brooklyn1550 Roberto Duran Full Member

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    Obviously we disagree, but you do make some very good points to say otherwise.:good
     
  9. ChampionsForever

    ChampionsForever ESB VIP

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    This content is protected
     
  10. jimmie

    jimmie Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    The man holds wins over 11 former Heavyweight titilst thats pretty dam impressive.
     
  11. box03

    box03 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Holyfield is an amazing Heavywieght who beat the odds when faced against Bowe the 2nd time and Tyson both times, his legacy will be his be based on him fighting the best and his longevity in the sport.
     
  12. TheGoldenBoy#1

    TheGoldenBoy#1 Member Full Member

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    Bowe helped those odds by gorging himself instead of training.

    That said I consider to be a great heavyweight.
     
  13. DamonD

    DamonD Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Yes it is.
     
  14. Decker

    Decker Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Good discussion by El Bombasto and brooklyn1550.

    How about ATG CWT, near ATG HW? Was 0-2 vs Lewis, unless anybody considers their first fight a draw :verysad That decision :barf
     
  15. Hank

    Hank Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Belt holders and heavyweight champs are 2 different things. John Ruiz was no heavyweight champ. Holyfield had great all around career, but he lost too many in prime, and was not great heavyweight imo. He was always competitive, had guts, was exciting, but at best was not an all time great. If he had fought Tyson before Tyson lost time in prison I think result would have been different.