Tommy Burns Bludgeoning Gunner Moir

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Nov 2, 2015.

  1. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2006
    Messages:
    98,716
    Likes Received:
    30,652
  2. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2015
    Messages:
    9,343
    Likes Received:
    1,539
    Beautiful video. Burns was impressive.....nice balance, side to side movement with jabbing, combinations. Best video I have seen of Burns.
     
  3. apollack

    apollack Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2006
    Messages:
    4,307
    Likes Received:
    1,875
  4. Berlenbach

    Berlenbach Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2011
    Messages:
    3,191
    Likes Received:
    1,255
    Nice find, thanks. Burns was good... Moir was dirty.
     
  5. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    55,255
    Likes Received:
    10,363
    You should see Burns vs Bill Squires. It was a KO in 1, and I think Burns best-filmed effort. His moment and hitting power look best below:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUDIXdef9rU

    I do think Burns looks all right in this film, but to take 10 rounds to KO Moir is nothing to be proud of.

    Hauge iced Moir in one round.
    Curran iced Moir in one round
    Young Johnny Johnson KO'd Moir in two rounds.
    A fighter named Harry Slounch Dixon KO'd Moir in 4 rounds.
     
  6. apollack

    apollack Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2006
    Messages:
    4,307
    Likes Received:
    1,875
    Dixon and Wilson did it when Moir was green, in only his 3rd and 4th pro bouts, in 1903. Burns stopped Moir in 1907, after Moir had won 11 bouts in a row, including winning the British heavyweight championship. Moir did not fight for well over a year after that brutal beating that Burns handed him, so I doubt he was the same when Hage KO'd him quick.
     
  7. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    55,255
    Likes Received:
    10,363

    Apollack.

    I didn't even mention Wilson.

    Wilson was rather new as well, at least according to box rec. Moir was his Wilson's 8th fight, and leading up to it Wilson only had two stoppages. Not exactly the sign of a puncher.

    Moir was KO'd pre-prime, prime and post-prime, and very early in many cases.

    Hague vs. Burns pre-Jackon Johnson could have been a good one while it lasted. I'd favor Burns, but also think Hauge could have been the best puncher Burns fought.
     
  8. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2006
    Messages:
    98,716
    Likes Received:
    30,652
    After flooring Moir a couple of times, Burns eased up in the middle rounds to give the crowd their money's worth.
    Moir was the betting favourite.
     
  9. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    55,255
    Likes Received:
    10,363
    Then I would have made a fortune. Moir's jaw was certified glass long before this fight.

    Burns finished lesser fighters quickly. So the " give the crowd their monies " worth seems to be a bit of a stretch.

    The fight report I read concurs. Moir hurt Burns with two smashing rights to the jaw that had Burns holding on in a clinch in the 4th round. From here Burns fought more cautiously.

    There you have it.
     
  10. apollack

    apollack Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2006
    Messages:
    4,307
    Likes Received:
    1,875
    Bottom line is a fight should be judged by how it was perceived at the time it occurred. At that time, the Brits thought highly of Moir, backed him, paid Burns well for the fight, the British paid high ticket prices to attend, and Moir was so well thought of he was only a slight 5 to 4 underdog.

    The London Daily Express said,
    I know of no better representative of modern fighting than Moir. … His recent victories over Palmer and ‘Tiger’ Smith demonstrated that he has a terrible punch. … I think tonight he will surprise even some of his friends, as he is far quicker than most people think, and, so far as punishment goes, he will take as much as any man living. He is the old type of British ‘bulldog,’ game to death.
     
  11. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    55,255
    Likes Received:
    10,363
    Adam,

    My perception is very different. The London Daily Express should be embarrassed with this write-up as Moir's ability to absorb punishment was overrated. They make it sound like he's ultra durable.

    Moir's record prior to Burns was just 12-3, and he was stopped twice early. Moir's win over Palmer was via Dq, and Smith has but one listed fight in Box Rec prior to meeting Burns.

    This is a case of the Brittish hyping their own. This has not changed in over 100 years.
     
  12. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2006
    Messages:
    71,997
    Likes Received:
    28,008
    Do you ever get the idea that Burns might be a little bit underrated?
     
  13. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    55,255
    Likes Received:
    10,363
    He wasn't held in high regard in his time as Champion. Essentially he was a blown up middleweight who was rather active. I'd pick every lineal champion before him, save Hart and all after him up to Tunney to defeat Burns....and quite a few contenders.

    Underrated maybe in skills fo the time, but outside of Johnson who called Burns the easiest man he fought at the time, did Burns ever beat say a top 15 guy from 1890-1920? Maybe if you put Hart in there.
     
  14. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2006
    Messages:
    71,997
    Likes Received:
    28,008
     
  15. AlFrancis

    AlFrancis Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2008
    Messages:
    9,813
    Likes Received:
    848
    Hard men them!