Tony Ayala Jr. was a very exciting fighter...

I assume your dismissal of Ayala is due to your lack of knowledge. Tony Ayala had Jackson's power, but more talent and overall better instincts, and a body attack like McCallum's, only much more power behind it. Iran Barkley was an anomaly. Barkley was big and strong, but by no means the best MW around at the time. He was also slow, enough so where he made it easy enough for Duran to duck his punches and wear him out. Barkley didn't hit as hard or attack nearly as furiously as Tony Ayala.

Name another 14-year old sparring partner who beat the holy hell out of a feared champ.

 

Sparring means little. Howard Eastman sparked Collins and Eubank in sparring but never did it to any class fighters, nor did Eubank or Collins get sparked.

One other thing is I doubt that someone would want to do a number on a 14 year old kid. Whichever way you look at it, him doing well in sparring as a kid is not enough to think so highly of him, especially looking at him on film, sloppy, undoubtedly powerful, but ten a penny.

I clearly do know a fair amount of boxing, your threads are constantly the same. Your constant **** sucking of Ayala is a joke.

This:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYuLR86VSmA

Just isn't the al-conquering tour de force you describe him as having the chance to be. we've seen destroyers like this a lot, if Jackson got exposed so would Ayala. He's no Joe Louis in terms of patience, timing and accuracy.

Looks more like Dick Tiger without the subtleties, without the all-round game. Okay, I've picked a one round blowout. But considering Ayala doesn't seem to have fantastic balance in any of his fights, and even here needs about twenty flush shots to drop this guy, I don't think he's the Maverick offensive fighter you (and a couple of other deluded 'admirers', who also seem to love Terry Norris for some reason, which is much more understandable than Ayala as Norris was proven as a good fighter) make him out to be.

Only my opinions.

 

Cuevas was notorious for breaking the bones of sparring partners as well. Older, more experienced guys were afraid of him. Another thing is, Cuevas had clearly stated that he wasn't going to go easy on Tony just because he was a kid. After all, Cuevas himself turned pro at 14.

You do have knowledge, but your dismissal of Ayala seems almost like a personal grudge. I speak the facts and my own observations, but they always fall on biased ears.

What I note most about that is your bias against Tony. 20 shots, yes... in just 1:32...

Tony wasn't solely a crude slugger. He had an overwhelming tendency to do this, because he had the power to take out most opponents quickly. But he could also box and use defense when he needed to. See Cheatham and Kirkland, a guy of Hearns-like proportions, but bigger.

 

Ayala padded his early record with a list of bums and stiffs........ CHRIST! Ayala's BIGGEST NAME opponent is Yori Boy Campas, and Ayala LOST to Campas in 2000......... Ayala is a piece of **** who belongs in a ****** cage from here 'til doomsday................. Geez, the guy got his second chance to make good and he still screwed it up..... Now Ayala is back home in the cooler in Texas doing some more time for several more yrs......... Whatta' Jackass..........

MR.BILL:bbb:hat

 

LOL. C'mon Bill quit ****ing sugar coating it, how do you really feel?

 

Please don't tell me you think Tony Ayala was a force post-prison. He could still hit, and was arguably beating Campas, but being old and inactive for so long, he gased out. Leonard-Camacho magnified.

 

Christ, Ayala never fought anyone........ Robbie Epps was a nobody / crossroads guy for ESPN back in the early 80s............... Ayala was all hype........ Plus, he was also fleshy / porky even at a supposedly trained 154 pounds....... Tony Ayala is a classic example of being an all-time great fighter with never having to actually prove it.....

MR.BILL

 

Who in their right mind considers Ayala an ATG beside Rooster and Lap?

 

I think you should review Duran - Moore if you haven't seen it. This is the Duran Ayala would have faced.

Ayala should be the one under scrutiny here, he'd never fought a good fighter, had suffered a KD (Albeit flash) vs a nobody and had never been under duress, let alone constant duress.

 

I'm not sure Ayala could've beaten Moore in June of '83 up in New York..... Moore blamed his loss on a Duran thumb in round 1 and the fact that he had a couple of Wisdom teeth yanked a few days earlier by a dentist... Still, Moore was game and rugged before exiting in round 8 against Duran... Could Ayala beat that Moore, too??? I'm not so sure.........
:bbb:rasta

MR.BILL

 

Agreed, Moore was a great chance vs Ayala. Moore, despite a short career, had already showed enough heart and will to win vs a few dangerous punchers.

 

I think Ayala would've stopped Moore, in a hellacious fight.

Ayala woulda had ZERO chance against Leonard, Hearns, and Hagler though.

 

The first time I saw Ayala fight was in the amatuers, I beleive it was a lightheavyweight fight...Undefeated Ken Norton look a like, think his name was Kirkland, tall and muscular vs a short lightheavyweight Ayala...Ayala went down hard a few times in the 1st and I said what a mismatch...how did this guy get to the finals, then with that the short fat Ayala got up with a great exhibit of heart and Dropped the Big guy and KO'd him in the next rd...It was a war and I remembered this kid...I remember thinking..if this kid could get into shape, watch out because he has heart and power...I think he would have done great in the pros and I seen him show heart again as a pro getting dropped hard and getting up to win....too bad Tony had a sickness as a man...his brothers were herion adicts and Tony was a freak sicko...I do not like Davey Hilton who raped 3 of his daughters or Ayala who was a mutt on the outside but in the ring I think he had something special and was headed to fight the best....shame how he threw it all away...and threw his 2nd chance away also

 

No doubting Ayala had some serious talent. It's far from impossible he couldn't have eventually emerged as the middleweight of his time. He actually proved so little however any really big proclaimations look premature. More talented and hypes guys failed at times, look at the can't miss Mark Breland. Others like SRL fulfill promises and more.

The ideal scenario, and some envisioned it, was for Ayala to rule the 154's and grow into 160, given Hagler his great challenge.

 

The reason why Duran won as convincingly as he did was because he thumbed Davey Moore in the eye in round 1. Duran may still have won anyway, but probably by late stoppage or decision. Tony on the other hand had the ferocity Duran had, but was way stronger. Whether or not Duran mixes it up with Tony, it's only a matter of time before power determines this one the way it did Hearns-Duran. Duran was the best LW that ever lived, but doesn't have the stamina at 154 to pull this one off. Not against a guy like Tony.