Too many belts, too many weight classes!

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Rumsfeld, Oct 27, 2020.

  1. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I might be missing something here, but isn't 'one champ per division' accompanied by 'one rating system per division' and, if so, how difficult is it to uphold the number-1 contender's right to fight for the championship?
     
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  2. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

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    The worst thing is that they could've been more justified in making a division between LHW and CW, since it is a whopping 25lb difference.

    Instead they make this 'Super Cruiser' division, which is so obviously for sanctioning fees only. No one asked for this.
     
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  3. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Yeah, or they could have put cruiser back to 190, and then made 'super cruiser' at 205 or 210. Which is still unnecessary but far more reasonable.
     
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    It's far more difficult to pursue this line of thinking with 7 or 8 title belts available though. Because if a fighter has a championship belt and believes himself the best, why would he pursue the next champion over? Similarly, the people who run his title aren't going push him to meet a guy with another belt because they don't list other beltholders among their own contenders (inexplicably).

    People who win these alphabet titles actually thinking they are champions and should be treated as such, including in negotiations ("i'm the champ").

    Some crazy stuff, really, how we get here.
     
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  5. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Perhaps its the nostalgia in me because there was only 11 weight classes when I got into the game and (almost) only one champ per division. And we knee-deep fight fans could name all 11 champs and we could name their top contenders. Now really, can anyone even remotely come close to that with 17 (for now) weight classes and 4 champs per division? Once the knee-deep fan can't can't follow the sport, what chance has the general fan?

    The men that created all these divisions did not have the good of the sport in mind. They were/are self-serving individuals who only care about the here and now. And by the here and now I mean themselves. Running them out of the game, returning to 11 weight classes, returning to one champ and returning to 15 rounds for a world championship contest would return the sport to a visible, viable place that IMO, would also return it to mainstream media. Because I'm also one of those guys who remember it on the front page of the sports section of the newspaper.

    Probably the hardest weight people would frown on dissolving would be the cruiserweight division. IMO, this division did nothing but to create the fat heavyweight or the steroid-laden heavy weight. Big is not better. I recall a quote from Archie Moore before his title fight with Marciano (I think he had fought a non-title at heavy as a tuneup to the fight) stating something about, "I'm 188 now, I need to get down to about 182 for Marciano" (or something like that). A canny old pro like Moore knew the need for speed and athleticism, not bulk. I would like to see the days of the fat heavyweight go away and elimination of cruiser could do that. And let's face it, in the years since its inception, what has it done? Holyfield was a standout, but after that a long line of unmemorable fights and fighters. And not to forget, he made his name big time at heavy far smaller than some of the tanks today.

    I'm on a soapbox today. Sorry, but I care about this sport.
     
  6. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    I agree on every point. Ideally, I'd like there to be the old 8 divisions. But I can understand good arguments for maybe 10.
    17 is ridiculous.

    Another thing that needs to be done is to get rid of these early weigh-ins. There are too many rehydration freaks squeezing into divisions that are too big for, then blowing up 20 pounds over the limit by the time they get in the ring. It's fraudulent, and benefits certain individuals with unusual physiology. Then, to counter it, you get the 'star' fighters imposing rehydration clauses into contracts when they move up the divisions, yet some of the same guys will have been the worst culprits for it when they were 3 divisions below.
    The early weigh-ins were apparently brought in for safety but there's too much abuse of the procedure.
     
  7. sweetsci

    sweetsci Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I actually think that if there was only one champion per division (among other things), boxing would bring in MORE money. It would bring in more fans, and more fans means more money. But the powers-that-be are too short-sighted to understand this. They'd rather collect scraps.

    Despite being a linealist, I'm actually not opposed to title stripping when the situation warrants. I am opposed to frivolous strippings and multiple titles to fill the vacancy.
     
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  8. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    Yes , too many belts which is why its criminal of the WBC to create a new division that will bring even more belts into the sport :ohno
     
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  9. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    Which? "Original 8"? Would you prefer "traditional 8"? Context is King.

    :smoking:
     
  10. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    I absolutely hate that there are 17. In conjunction with the slew of alphabet trinkets, it just gets in the way of elite level talent squaring off.
     
  11. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    The problem with that is it interferes with a boxer's goals. Boxers want to reach the prime time, and ideally compete for and win a championship. They'd be shooting themselves in the foot to do this (except maybe for the rare exception of boxers to have reached "star" status, and of course the even rarer "superstar" status).
     
  12. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    I can live with 8-10 divisions, and I suppose two championships is better than what we have now, although I'd ideally prefer just one.
     
  13. Pepsi Dioxide

    Pepsi Dioxide Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Im not sure how you get to one governing body above all others that everyone recognizes. It would take a concentrated effort by the promoters, athletic comissions and media outlets to do this.
     
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  14. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    Yep! It reminds me of something like tax revenues. Raising taxes doesn't always mean greater tax revenue is generated, and a lot of times lowering tax rates is something that actually increases tax revenues. Tax rates affect spending habits, and in similar fashion, I think a better structured sport with greater integrity and one champion per division would likely result exactly as you suggested. Better championship fights, and better fights between top contenders all competing for that same coveted prize would improve matters. At least I strongly believe it would.

    In short, I agree.
     
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  15. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    Yeah, traditional eight. That's better. I like Bit's idea too.

    But really we should just have light-heavyweight and be done with it.