Top 10 Lightweights of All Time

Not sure in what order (though I'd tip towards Duran H2H and would have Ortiz right up there) but from what I know (admittedly a little uneducated on some boxers being mentioned here)

Duran
Ortiz
Whitaker
Buchanan
Armstrong
Chavez
Arguello
Ross
Gans
Leonard

Admittedly haven't seen anything of Gans, Ross or Leonard (I think, I'm certain there's little or no footage of Leonard, am I correct) so those guys are there only from what I've read. As I say, after Sweet Pea, it's any order of those guys. But from what I've seen, the top 3 are in the right order, though I'd rate Pea higher all-time over Ortiz (who I still rate very highly myself, top 30/20 of all time IMO)

 

In terms of elite skills, best of the best he just isn't up there. His defense is lacking, he doesn't have the snap/recoil/speed in his shots (meaning hes there to be countered and slipped/parryed), his feet as you said are slow but I'd add the footwork is a little mechanical. These were often exploited and he was outboxed at times.

Louis has superior punch technique, hand speed and defense to Arguello, not to mention hes a HW

 

Arguello clearly one of the most skilled boxers of all time, so have no clue what PowerPuncher is talking about. If you judge him by his avatar, his preferences in boxers might be as good as his preferences of women.

Admittedly Arguello struggled with 'pure' boxers, but in terms of being a Matador (dealing with aggressive smotherers and brawlers) he was second-to-none.

Did forget Beau Jack and Ike Williams from my list! Mainly because I'm tired. Again, wouldn't quite know where to put them as I haven't seen too much of either guy (except rfom one of their fights together which if I'm correct ended in a stunning stoppage Williams way)

 

No snap/recoil/speed in his punches?!?!?! Are you sure you've ever seen Arguello fight?????

 

Exactly he couldn't box :good

 

To the above post, unbelievable.

He's literally one of the GOAT. What the Hell have you been smoking?!?!?

 

And he struggled with them, didn;t mean he was out of his depth. Couldn\t have been with his size advantages, boxing I.Q, actually I'll stop there.....Arguello is famous for fighting in a 'Chess' style (a lot of other posters/writers have said this, not my term) in terms of taking his time and putting combinations together in order to do maximum damage.

How could someone with such a high boxing I.Q not be able to box? He had an awesome jab, powerful hooks, great inside fighting ability (great uppercuts too) and possibly the second greatest P4P straight right of all time (behind Hearns)

You must have beef with Arguello? Olivares fan? Or was he rubbish as well?

 

Arguello was a superb boxer/puncher. His overall style wasn't flamboyant and fluid though, unlike Mayweather and Sanchez. Maybe it's his style that doesn't do it for you, rather than him being in your words "he couldn't box"

He wasn't a reckless fighter who soley relied on his punching power. He had a very orthodox technique, like Louis and Lopez. He used his height and reach, jab, and solid pressuring style to box while waiting for opportunities to land his body punches, uppercuts, hooks, etc.

 

He isn't 1 of the GOAT though, hes great at what he does but hes LIMITED, hes slow of foot and hand with an average defense. 1 of the true GOAT's beats him down, thats why he's lucky Duran didn't stay around to give him a sustained beating and ofcourse Sanchez, Mayweather, Whitaker, Ortiz, Loche, would take him to school, potentially winning shut outs against him.

 

No. All of the above is debatable, but at FW/SFW Arguello was a beast. At LW he was still very good and whilst I'd give Pea a GREAT chance of beating him, Floyd would get sparked.

LIMITED? Boxer. Puncher. Inside. Outside. Great chin. Power carried up in weight. Fearless. Ring generalship.

Sounds like Ricky Hatton to me!

 

I'm actually laughing. Sorry mate, I can't help it.

 

Me too Robbi. Must have some serious beef with Arguello as he's usually a decent poster.

 

I was winding up Fleaman, Arguello is a great fighter who can box but he isnt near the best of the best in that respect.

I do have stylistic preferences though and I do expect great boxers to have EVERYTHING in a skillset. So no he doesn't do it for me but thats because he has stylistic flaws that great boxers would expose.

In terms of being exposed I think he would be exposed to a far higher degree by Mayweather/Whitaker than Pryor because Pryor fought Arguello's fight and Arguello matched up stylistically better against Pryor.

Now would Arguello have become a LW champ in the era of Duran? Ortiz? Whitaker? Mayweather. I think not.

So I see him as incomplete and the criticisms I made of him hold true.

 

Phew. Wondered what was wrong with you then!

Mayweather isn't a GREAT inside fighter, not as god as Arguello anyways. His insistence on getting on his boke against Castillo (good tactics IMO) showed that he didn't want a repeat of the 1st fight.

Pryor fought his fight which is to throw punches in bunches from every possible angle whilst slipping on the inside to great effect. The fact that Arguello kept him on the end of his punches throughout the fight and lasted so long against, at the time, a complete animal at his first shot at the weight is nothing short of amazing.

No doubt. Would've given Duran a very hard fight at LW, Ortiz also. I'd say Whitaker would be too much for him, but that's only because he was so elusive, wheras Duran and Ortiz weren't. I'd pick both of those guys to beat him, but not by a whitewash.

In Mayweather's time? Arguello would've destroyed Castillo and Corrales IMO, and probably would've beaten the Mayweather that showed up against Castillo the 1st time. PBF makes it harder if he does what he did in the 2nd Castillo fight, but then again, Arguello can fight at range too. PBF has a great chin, but so did other fighters who fought Arguello.

If people always pick Hearns over PBF at WW I'd have no trouble picking Arguelo over PBF at LW. However, I'd lean towards PBF.

At FW, SFW there aren't many I'd pick against Arguello, Sanchez included. Though I think out of all of the guys mentioned, Sanchez would've given him the hardest fight (even at the mooted 135 lbs weight limit for their early 80's clash) out of the fights that 'could've happened'.

I'd be interested in how you;d think Pryor-PBF would go down PowerPuncher. Even at LW, where Pryor really only fought overmatched opponents, he was the same animal.

For the record I don't believe Pryor belongs in this discussion. Didn't stick around at the weight long enough or beat enough decent opponents, even if H2H he's a nightmare for all the ATG LW's.

But now we've gone off topic somewhat.....

 

I'd say Arguello IS the great SFW of all time. PBF was more aggressive then, and if he tried that against Arguello he'd get KTFO, regardless of his decent chin.